What if there is no abrahamic god?

Actually I was referring to 2 Bishops at the time. #

As for the rest of the post.............. And who cares about the Peniel Pentecostal Church. The two main churches are just the same with their robes etc.

I repeat. Without the OT, without the clear misquotes of Jewish Scripture, Christianity as we know it, would not have come into being. There's so much Judaism in the Gospels that has been added to by the Gospels writers for their own purposes together with 'miracles', to elevate the learned Jewish Preacher above his status of Teacher/Rabbi. . .

 

As with any historical document, history isn't distilled from it simply by reading it and taking it as true. Most historical documents are riddled with agendas and perspectives, and those who study history are well aware of this and know how to take that into account. We have built a pretty convincing picture of what parts of the Bible are additions, alterations and so on, and the history we get from it is adjusted accordingly.

I recommend the following Yale course on old testament history, very interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLh9mgdi4rNeyuvTEbD-Ei0JdMUujXfyWi

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As with any historical document, history isn't distilled from it simply by reading it and taking it as true. Most historical documents are riddled with agendas and perspectives, and those who study history are well aware of this and know how to take that into account. We have built a pretty convincing picture of what parts of the Bible are additions, alterations and so on, and the history we get from it is adjusted accordingly.

I recommend the following Yale course on old testament history, very interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLh9mgdi4rNeyuvTEbD-Ei0JdMUujXfyWi

 

What "purposes?"

 

To make Jesus their Messiah.

 

But why? What was their motive? What was in it for them?

 

A need to believe in something. 3 years with someone they wanted to be the Messiah and he had died. They couldn't accept it was all for nothing. What would Christians do today if there were no promise of heaven. They have a job to accept what science tells us. We have a life to fulfil to the best of our ability for our children. Like animals do when rearing their
young.

The Hebrews themselves were a hotchpotch of people with 'pagan' tendencies before Babylon. There they accepted Babylonian/Zoroastrian monotheism and things went from there. So Christian doctrine was adapted from Jewish doctrine adopted from Zoroastra. And Islam came from the myths of the OT. Many middle east religions can be traced back to Sumerian culture and farther.

Why do Christians believe in someone for whom there is no evidence. Someone who came into existence by misuse of earlier scriptures.

Wasn't it MARX who said 'religion is the opiate of the people'.


If people spent more time working for the good of humanity, relying upon their own ability and not depending on whether it's god's will or not, things might improve.

What's in it for Muslims? Hindu's etc etc. Yet they believe! But their beliefs are different.

If there is a creator he must be very confused as to what he has created as every religion claims it is the only true religion.

 

Why are the only options "Their statements are true" or "they deliberately lied and made it up"?

Why isn't there a third option: "They are just wrong"?

 

Mitt Ryan is a modern Christian on this very forum who takes the story of the Flood seriously.

 

Where is this evidence that Jesus was seen by thousands? The only source you have for that is the Bible.

So clearly, using the same logic, WW3 was fought between NATO and the Warsaw Pact and included hundreds of thousands of participants because it was described in Red Storm Rising.

 

Are you saying Jesus never existed? If so, were the thousands who saw him all hallucinating or what?
As for your consp-theory that his followers made him up,let's see your evidence..
PS- what denomination were you a church organist with, the JW's, Mormons, Rapturists or what?

 

If an encounter blows somebody's socks off, it's not something they'll ever forget..
For example Ezekiel devotes the first two chapters of his book detailing his encounter in minute detail, including when he practically fainted with fear, and one of the UFO occupants said- "Stand up, I want to talk to you."
PS- Ezekiel was even mentioned in the opening of the TV series 'Project UFO'

[video=youtube;yVVADz0Afss]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVVADz0Afss[/video]

 

Hopefully he'll enlighten us on how thousands of animal species (and their food supply and litter trays) could fit on the ark.
My own theory is that either the ark was a 'DNA repository craft' easily capable of carrying millions of DNA samples, or that it never existed and is simply a metaphor for the natural selection process under environmental pressure..

 

Where's the evidence that he wasn't seen by thousands?
Remember after his death nobody, not a single person, ever came forward to say "Baloney, it never happened" because they knew there were too many witnesses..

 

I did not say Jesus never existed. I said Jesus Christ never existed! Where's your evidence that Jesus Christ ever existed?

Reading the Gospels reveals a Jewish preacher, speaking to Jews, using Jewish Scriptures, using many parables which actually are from the OT and understood by his followers.
His teaching was basically from the Torah, and events such as his 'temptation', baptism (repentance) and synagogue attendance all fall in with Judaism.

Believe in miracles if you wish. Believe that masses could walk into desert places, despite the fact that they had to work, and that cities could empty in so short a time. All that without communications to spread the news, transport and modern day facilities. Don't you realise what you are saying. Keep your imagination for your tank battles.

Most religions start with one person convincing another and so on. Mohammed convinced a few of his so-called talks with Gabriel, and Islam has millions of followers. But you say they are wrong. Buddhism with Buddha. But you say they are wrong. Hinduism is an accumulation of Indian religions dating back far beyond even Judaism. But you say it is wrong. Religion is the need to believe in something beyond oneself, instead of accepting responsiblility for ones actions.

I was a Baptist but because I moved to a village I supported the local Anglican churches where I played regularly in 2 villages and stepped in when required elsewhere. Denominations are not important. Many years ago I preached in different denominations, produced Bible studies for several groups and had some accepted by an Anglican Diocese. I also ran a small church for a time when the Minister was ill and died. 4 services a week to prepare and a full time job.

 

1- Where's your evidence that Jesus Christ didn't exist?
2- The different denominations that you hopped around in often have very different belief systems, so my guess is that you were unknowingly caught in their "spiritual crossfire" which left you tired, drained and full of doubts.
"He who walks with the wise grows wise, but a companion of fools suffers harm" (Proverbs 13:20)
"Bad company corrupts good character" (1 Cor 15:33)
"If you hang around with losers, you become a loser"- Donald Trump
As I've mentioned before, my friends tried to introduce me to different churches some years ago, but I always walked out after a few minutes because I couldn't stand the bad vibes of the congregations. I'm sure there must be some good churches around but I've never found one yet..

 

You don't understand much do you. I've already said 'denominations' meant nothing. That's why I could go into any 'genuine' Christian church, and ignore what you call the 'vibes'. Christians are not supposed to worship belief systems. You're way off track.

If you've never found a good Church in all this time, perhaps you should look at yourself.

Anyone who has really studied the Bible, history, culture and religion of the time, without prejudice, must see the problems. I didn't become agnostic overnight. It was a gradual realisation that the book (Bible) I had been using was not what it seemed. That Christianity was based on misinterpretations of earlier religions.

The fact that there is no evidence he did.

We have a book called the Bible. We have Homers Odyssey and Iliad.

The Bible is based partly on fact and based partly on mythical stories. The Iliad/Odyssey are based on mythical stories with illusions to some real events. The Iliad contains prophecy and days of plague, lifted when a wrong is righted. So does the Bible.

 

And we have exactly what proof those weren't say hallucinations or the results of a psychotic episode?

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He'll say "Goddidit" while simultaneously claiming the Bible is supported by science.

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How many times are you going to repeat this bull(*)(*)(*)(*) claim that I have refuted at least a dozen times?

MILLIONS of people said "It never happened". They are called Jews or Roman Pagans.

 

Yes - the benefits of the religions based on the Bible exist whether there actually is a god or not.

For example, the elements of Christianity (comfort, moral leadership, community, etc.) don't depend on there actually being a god. They depend on believing the Bible and religious leaders of various eras including our own.

 

I just found that link myself
And agree it is fantastic

 

There you go again mate, suggesting the early Christians were all liars!
Nobody could "misinterpret" Jesus, they simply wrote down what they saw and heard as he strutted his stuff..
As I've told you before, you're too fixated on the Old Testament instead of staying focussed on Jesus-
"Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith"....."Through Jesus we are saved,and not through Moses" (Heb 12:2, Acts13:39)
You remind me of a young street preacher I used to know in Leicester 20 years ago, he drew good crowds because of his simple straightforward manner, but more recently he became a Baptist minister and when I dropped him a chatty e-mail for old times sake last year I was shocked at how much he'd changed and found he was now talking drivel because too much Old T study had made him lose the plot!
Both him and you remind me of the gunner in this tank during an online wargame, I drove it onto this hilltop to face that enemy-held village, but he's swung the gun to look backwards and I had to scream at him "FACE FRONT! FACE FRONT!". It happens a lot no matter what gunner I take aboard, sheesh!
The moral?- Face front towards Jesus, not backwards towards the Old T..

 

Where are these "millions" of accounts?

 

Again I repeat, as I have done many times on the internet, show me how the quotes from the OT, taken out of context, can refer to Jesus. These are the misinterpretations I was talking about.
The Gospels have Jesus saying things that no Jew would EVER say. If he had his disciples would have left him very quickly. They were Jews who believed the Tanakh. They could accept a lot of what Jesus said because he taught in the Hebrew way of parable and poetry. The way much of the Tanakh was written. And much of it was made up of things they knew. The Vine, the Shepherd etc are all from the Tanakh concerning God's dealings with their ancestors.
They would not have accepted him as THE Son of god. They could accept he was A son of god. They would not accept a human vicarious sacrifice. A man was responsible for his own sins. NT hell is not in the OT - This was a Hellenistic teaching found in the Decapolis Greek cities, which had infiltrated some sections of Hebrew society. .

Perhaps you are the one out of touch with reality. Too much tank driving.

 

If there was no one who denied the story of Jesus, then why didn't every Roman's lagan and Jew convert to Christianity?

You do know there are millions of Jews today who reject the story of Jesus, right?

 

How would you define "Jew"?

 

The Romans had a vast number of mickey mouse "gods" and didn't want a young carpenter too-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Roman_deities

As for the Jews, the masses let the snooty priests do their thinking for them, then as now..