Wheel Out the Skripal Story Again

But, but, but... you're conflating me with Theresa May who after a week accused Russia of being responsible for the poisoning of Sergie Skripal, way before the police investigation concluded and evidence had been collected.

According to the TV news today, one drop, repeat one drop, of pure Novichok (of the type developed by Russia) will kill 10 healthy men. Ergo, one tenth of one drop will kill 1 healthy man.

However, according to Alastair Cunningham of the Salisbury Recovery Coordinating Group, said that the Novichok (of a type developed by Russia) degrades in the natural environment over time (HERE). Whereas only a few days earlier, on 5th July, the BBC Newsnight programme offered a "chemical weapons expert to tell us that "Novichok" is extremely persistent" and could still be "lurking potent in a bush" (HERE).

This nerve agent is like that old Biblical phrase: it is all things to all men. According to their need, it seems.

Maybe? You mean you also haven't also found all the facts too?

Yes, well you need to direct this comment to said Rt. Honourable Theresa May, methinks. Or the Home Sec. Either will do.

Was it really? Probably got lost in the massive bombardment of British media propaganda.

But I take your point. It always best to scare the poor people stupid with exaggerated scary headlines and then soothe them with exaggerated drivel - like lying in a bath when a nuclear bomb detonates in your vicinity (which was the advise given during the Cold War) - because, one presumes, the enamel on the bath provides instant magical protection against instant immolation from heat ranging between 10,000 and 300,000 degrees.

Personally speaking, I prefer a Harry Potter wand in such situations. If it provides no help against becoming very crisp very quickly, one can always pick their nose with it.

 

Isn't it so weird that some individuals have such blind credence in (inverted commas)authority(close inverted commas) that they close their mind to even the possibility that they (the liars) could possibly be duplicitous, and are fully prepared to defend them, come what may? Human stupidity never ceases to amaze me.

 

Doubtless, still in a MI5 safe house being hidden from all and sundry.

 

Colour me likewise dumbfounded by that trait, Cerb. When I first joined this forum my jaw dropped at the prevalence of those who artlessly believe in what politicians say.

 

So you have no idea what you are talking about then, extremely persistent does not mean it doesn't degrade (hint it means it takes longer) the same as degrades in the natural environment over time does not state the rate of degradation (hint in can be very quick or very long). Both statements are correct and are not mutually exclusive.

You seem to be jumping to conclusions just as badly as the government did back in march, you have made your mind up without access to facts or pretty much any data.

By the way LD50 is not measured in drops whatever standard measurement that is, not sure of Novichok but VX is 10mg. That's in direct contact with the skin, as a vapour is different measurement.


As for blindly following

No I don't but Isn't it so weird that some individuals have such blind credence to conspiracy that they close their minds to even the possibility that sometimes the simple truth is the truth.

I'm not defending anybody, try looking at facts and data do some research if you're that interested instead of spouting opinion as fact.

I don't assume it's wrong just because it's from authority just the same as I don't assume is right either.

 

Seems like a lot of people who don't like Putin wind up dead.
Former agents, journalists, opposition leaders, business people...
I suppose reading this thread we are going to wind up thinking its
the British or those fat and lazy Americans behind it all (probably
the same guys who murdered Lady Diana?)

 

This is rather a modern day version of The Boy Who Cried 'Wolf'.

The British government, like the Washington government, is well known for its mendacity. It's difficult to believe a word they say.

 

Not nearly as many who don't like Hillary Clinton. To find her ..... just follow the trail of corpses.

 

Neither am I someone who accuses Russia here or even Skirpal, because the facts and evidence is not given at all ... because demonstrably the warfare agent disappeared from the USSR laboratories before and someone was accused in Russia many years ago .. ..
But somebody had apparently annoyed Skripal with something like that or he was using his knowledge for anyone such a serious danger that the attack took place.

With something the warfare agent must have been transported and that was not found until today. And if now 2 people who live near the first Anschalges happen to have somehow infected with something, then you get scared somehow ... I mean, that is not some rat poison from Supermarket on which you can always meet and infect if you are silly enough!

 

Is there the special race of Americans??? Wow...

No. Because they cannot afford normal food.

Why not 1000 times?... Only a stupid American from Russian propaganda could write this.

I believe he is a stupid. Jews live thousands years and during all this period they are destroyed by other people. OK, Soviet Union presented to them a state. What did Jews do? They started to destroy Arabs. Do you never think that problem is not in other people, but in Jews?

Guy, what noncence do you write here? Russia is a world lider in export of wheat. Are you a Jew to write this?

 

Uh... so why didn't she just have Trump murdered, along with all the right-wing journalists and Republicans
who opposed her? And then, why didn't she win with 97% approval like Putin got from Siberia, Ural, Karelia
and Tatarstan?
Methinks there's some serious moral equivalency going on here.
The Russian govt WILL kill its domestic opponents simply because it CAN.

 

Its always fun to watch the conspiracy theorists floundering about before they have had time to concoct something more....elaborate or have it handed to them by the Russians. All a bit desperate really. But not to worry, in a few days they will have several fully formed theories that are a bit better than 'trying to distract from the World Cup'. Last time they were linking the Skripal attack to everything from the Mueller probe to the latest chemical weapons attack in Syria. Those at least had the benefit of being entertaining. I'm hoping we get something as enjoyable this time.

 

Well, it depends doesn't it. I could make exactly the same charge about you. I'll explain.

I make no claims to be scientifically trained, so I take your point about degradation and persistent. However, I have considerable experience recognising media and government spin/propaganda when I see it (as an old retired Journo). And it is that which I am focusing on in this thread.

This is the same government spin that we saw in spades during the Skripal affair, accompanied by the usual media balls that is plain for everyone to see in this story too. But I agree the facts are not all gathered yet. However, that has not been an obstacle to the Home Secretary, who has already fingered Russia for leaving behind some residue / leftovers from March. Although nobody knows where or how. Which are rather significant parts to any meaningful investigation. Supposing the word "meaningful" has any relevance here at all.

But there's nothing new in this. The facts weren't fully gathered back in March when Theresa May fingered Russia (it's highly likely) that the Novichok ("or something similar" to coin the words the government lawyer told the Judge in the Skripal case). I also recall that the government spun the story that only Russia had access to Novichok. Which they knew was an absolute lie, as PD has access to it - and many other NATO nations besides.

Just what exactly is it that I have made my mind up about? A precise precis would be nice. Then we would all know what you're charging me with.

If it's that I'm taking the Piss, then yep, hands up. Guilty as charged. Novichok isn't exactly spillage from a can of Carlsberg lager dropped in a trash-bin on the way home from a Friday night piss up, is it. Therefore, making comparisons, as I have done, is a perfectly reasonable thing to do (note: the same general area, the same alleged nerve agent, two people - one male, one female - being treated in the same hospital - and even a similar and curious time-lag between contact and collapse - or in this case between the collapse of one and the other, plus the same named culprit by the government, and Special Branch (the political police) involvement - and no hard proof of whodunnit or why in either case is yet available).

The essential Skripal ingredients are all there in the Amesbury Incident.

I have no problem with taking the Mick even at this early stage. You seemingly do. However, I do note in passing that the Skripal affair was so full of wilful BS that it's hardly a surprise anyone looking at the story draws direct parallels.

I'm impressed. I've made a note in my science folder for the next rainy Novichok day that comes along. Rain comes in drops, Novichok comes in measurements of "not sure". Thanks for that invaluable piece of advice.

However, I note that you well know I wasn't responsible for that quote, which is why I wonder why you're tugging at it so hard? Personally, I think your bile should be directed to the offending person - don't you? I posted the link to the Guardian article above where it was made - so the leg work's been done for you (go get him Tiger!).

 

Floundering. Bloody funny again.

You and your wishful thinking.

Don't give up your day job Big Yella, being a night club comic suits your temperament and abilities, but like everything else you try to do, you're not at all good at it.

 

Uh... so why didn't Putin just have Hillary murdered .... shot or Novichoked.

Because she is a blithering idiot and didn't win enough Democratic votes. You didn't realize that? Maybe you are not familiar with the term - DEMOCRACY and its principles. Can it be?

And methinks there's some serious "blame everything on Russias for all the failures of the opposition (without evidence)" going on here. Have you swept the WMD lie under the rug already? If so just lift up the corner have a look at what is lurking there. Lie for a penny, lie for a pound, eh?

You are confusing Russia with the USSR ..... associating Stalin with Gorbatjov and Putin. Shall I start to tally all of the innocent men, women, and children that have been raped, tortured, and murdered in Latin America, the Middle East, Africa, Asia, and even inside the US by American presidents and the CIA? Let's make a bet, shall we? I say the United States invaded more nations, raped more women, tortured more men and women than Russia has. Are you up for it? Hmmm?

 

Did this one happen by accident? From the initial reporting, it sounded like maybe these people ran into the same source of the poison that had gotten the Skripals, as though the stuff were still there and potent even now. It does not sound like these people would have been targeted, at any rate.

 

Coming from a guy who never found an anti-Western dictator he didn't like I'll give that all due weight.

The 5th rate Chomsky act might impress the Russian trolls & the feeble minded, but it was old decades ago. Fortunately your pomposity, intolerance for dissent and reliance on comically bad sources makes it sort of amusing.

I think we are about due for another declaration that I am on the 'ignore' list....until the next time you just can't restrain yourself from telling everyone how wrong I am about how right you are.

Keep it up stripey, its comedy gold.

 

Well it depends what you believe. The sane & sensible assumption is that it was some manner of accident connected wiht the attempted killing of Skripal. Drug users pick up the wrong container in a park or something.

However, if you wait a few days Stripey & the Putin Crew will hopefully provide us with some creative reasons why the British government tried to kill these two at this particular moment.

 

Look to Jenny. She's bound to tell you it's a false flag meant to smear poor innocent, wonderful, perfectly Christian Putin and Russia. Do they need more of a reason (excuse) than that? Jenny is prepared to accept Russian invading Europe to "liberate" it from, well, liberals I guess.

 

Why? I'm more interested is seeing you spin a double reverse false flag out of it.

 

What would that be? Russia wanting to make it look like the Brits trying to make it look like them? Just looks like a botched and sloppy assassination attempt by the Russians. I'll stick with that.

 

A singular false flag it is, then.

 

Not that I see. But I understand that you, for whatever strange reason, cannot ever accept and admit that Russia's government is corrupt and at times does terrible things, including having people assassinated.

 

Obvious false flag is obvious.

 

And you, for whatever strange reason, cannot ever accept and admit that the British government is corrupt and at times does terrible things, including having people assassinated.