why Mormans are not Christian

absorbed into other people now i imagine not exactly swept form the earth and theirs a good bit o gentile in quite a few Jews these days as well

 

I don't think anyone who is a Christian and believes in Christ should "think" they know what is within God's and his Son's mind...

 

Yeah, they are, taht there are people in the same stomping gorunds called ... Iraqis, Suna, Shia .... the Baalists are dead.

And, given the Babylonia Captivity, Ghenghis Khans depardations, pogroms, etc., there is a fair bet that there is a little bit of Jew in almost everyone.

 

You mean that boringly long list of unsubstantiated claims which you cut and pasted into a post? I scanned over it and saw a number of obvious falsehoods. So why should I waste my time running down the rest of the obviously sophomoric points when the whole is already sprinkled with errors?

You haven't even read the BoM. You've taken snippets from places on the internet, and because it reflects poorly on the BoM, you embrace it...untried. So you seek out and believe the untried if it faults that which you've also not investigated personally. Do you realize how goofy that is?

 

Right, of course.

Because Smith's claims are true, when they are obviously false. So I guess pointing out how X did did not exist until Y time, contrary to Smith's false claims, is unsubstantiated? If that is unsubstantiated, would would be a substantial criticism? So what about steel swords and such? There is a long list, get on it.

 

Obviously he does not.

But ... this should solve some of the problem.

Perhaps you should tell him you have a vagina, and then explain the reasons you accept the book of Mormon. Maybe then the three monkey's routine will pass and he'll actually listen and read, take a intellectual look at both afformation and doubt rather than blindly accepting the results of a google search.

Just remember to mention that you have a vagina ... that seems to be a key point in what is considered reasonable and scientific to that one.

 

The list is yours to legitimize because you posted it. It is very long, with no links to the research. There are obvious vague parts, ignorant criticisms, and outright untruths. But that's besides the point. You haven't even read the book which you (and other peoples lists) are criticizing.

 

Then it should be easy to disprove it.

Get on it, its a long list.

 

He's clearly not going to address any of the points you just made.

He doesn't have to prove the veracity of any of the claims he ripped off unexamined.

All te intellectual hard work is for other people.

It is amazing that atheists actually think this laziness is intelligence? Most people who pull these kinds of antics in elementary school fail their classes, yet its the greatest thing atheists can produce.

And they sit in silence as they do it.

 

Because they add or took away (in this case both) from Christ's teaching.

 

Your list of responses to quotes from the BoM would require exhaustive scientific research for each one. And yet for each conclusive statement in your list, there is no link to the scientists or archaelogists research work. Other responses in your list are just there to add to the list and create the appearance of legitimacy via bulk and long windedness. For instance, it quotes a sentence from the BoM, and the response is something like," that there is no evidence to support this wild assertion, it is therefore untrue".

I'll take two other particulars from your list as I recall them which are the easiest to undo. First, Labans sword. Your list said there were no steel swords at the time. But according to a quick wikipedia search, there were known steel swords as early as 800 years BC. So that particular point in your list is wrong.

The second point in your list is where it said that the Nephites could not travel from east coast to west coast, by foot, in a day, as stated in the BoM. However, as already pointed out by Chikaea in an earlier post, if they made landfall in South America and migrated northward, they'd eventually come to what is now called Panama, which at its narrowest point is about thirty miles wide, from sea to sea, and curiously about a days march.

The BoM spans about a thousand years (600bc-400ad). This would allow plenty of time for a race to expand, migrate, inhabit, and wind up in the New York area of North America. At any rate, here are three instances where I, a layman have proven your list to be make believe, ignorant, puffery. That's why I said it was suspiciously sophmoric.

 

Did they? Have you read the BoM? Its called another testiment of Jesus Christ, and its not like it significantly changes the teaching of Jesus does it?

The thing that I have always found most interesting about Mormons, or the Ahmadyya, is that it begs the question - if God is not dead (and he isn't), how will he interact with his creation?

The fact that different sects of CHRISTIANITY answer that question differently does not mean only a select few get to be called followers of Christ ... but not you or you or you.

 

You are completely wrong. You can't separate Jesus from the Trinity. That's what you don't understand. You can't simply say I believe in Jesus, you have to say I believe in the Trinity, since they are all-in-one. The same. Your flawed logic shows how you don't understand what the true meaning is.

 

Yeah, you can, several Christian denominations do it.

The point of the Trinity, or the God Head for that matter, is instructional. Its the recognize the three distinct aspects of God - The father, the son, and Holy Spirit. These three aspects have distinct roles and flow from one source and various denominations see them as interlinked or separate to greater and lesser degrees.

Yet the POINT is to be able to recognize those aspects and how they interact with US as God's creation. That is it.

Jesus is central to Jesus - not the Trinity. The Trinity is a doctrinal Construct, a simplification of the Bible for instructional purposes. That is it.

Its meant to help people recognize and move deeper into a relationship with JC. So is the God Head.

Jesus left us a commandment about what was most important, and he did not say, "Define me by the Trinity and deny everyone else, yea this is my greatest commandment."

 

Yes it does. It changes the afterlife. The consequences of salvation. Christ said "it is finished". They added to the book. Severe consequences were promised.

 

He was also taken down, prepared for burial, buried, risen, empty tomb found, the angel, the reappearance, etc. So the story wasn't exactly finished. He must have been referring to something else when he said, "It is finished".

 

Yup. He should have stayed with the racism claim as it was a stronger....errr...safer argument.

 

Hah! That'd be kinda difficult seeing as I'm a guy. My Avatar is of my wife reacting to word of our grocery bill.

 

He fulfilled the law. He said he is all we need, noone else after Him.

 

Yep, what he was referring to is the atonement. His sacrifice and the cleansing of sin, teh gift of grace is complete.

He was resurrected three days later, spent several weeks with his followers thereafter - so obviously - the life of Jesus was not ... done.

 

And indeed, the BoM is .... ANOTHER testiment of Jesus Christ. Again, you can agree or disagree with that, but what you are saying clearly does not exclude the fact that the risen Christ would reach out to other people.

In fact, is he dead now?

 

The Bible is the complete word of God. Mormuns aren't Christian.

 

Well, I disagree. And am allowed to. Catholics, Protestants, Lutherns, and Mormons are allowed in my house and to share their testimony of Jesus Christ.

Mormons, BTW, use the Bible.

Is Jesus Dead?

You do realize that the real name of the Momon faith is the Church of Jesus Christ Latter Day Saints?

Have you ever been to one of their services? You should go, and any thoughts you have about the faith not being centered on Christ go flying right out the old door.

Again, you don;t have to buy everything that Mormons are selling, but saying they are not Christian is ... silly and pointless. All you are saying is 'I' have it all figured out. I seriously doubt that, just as I doubt that 'I' have it all figured out and will not specifically boot someone from my tent because they have a different opinion of the same whole.

 

Obviously they use the bible. Refer to: Add or take away.

They are Mormons. They are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. That doesn't make them Christian because they use his name. Their main focus is on Joseph Smith. I know about about my Jesus to know he wouldn't approve of such behavior.

 

Brother - go visit a Mormon church. You are simply wrong.

Again, I work in a profession where I work all denominations of Christianity, Islam, Juddism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Paganis, agnosticism, and atheism. And when one of peers invites me to attend their services, to share their faith with me, I generally treat the request as a great honor - because it is.

The Mormon church is centered on Jesus Christ.

Josepg Smith is a Prophet akin to Moses, and his intent is to restore certain principles into the faith. And what are Mormons famous for? Hard work, Family? Friendliness? Not drinking? Terrible stuff that!

Again the thing makes Mormonism so interesting is that it deal with that question you keep dodging ...

If Jesus is not dead .... how is he seeking to interact with us? Why did the Mormon church add 400,000 converts to their rolls in the last 6 months alone if there is nothing to it? Why are more and more Mormons popping up in my ranks?

To disagree is one thing. To deny another altogether, and though I certainly don't agree with point of detail in every faith out there, I am extremely hesitent to kick any out from under God's tent based on my own subjective assessment.

I know many things, but the mind of God is not one of them.

BTW - the Catholic Church has extra Chapters in the Bible - are they now not Christian? Others have added chapters that other consider to be ... gnostic, are they not Christian now? Generally speaking, the majority of these extra texts are in harmony, they provide guidance about specific worship differences that, quite frankly only serve to help people in their desire to become closer to God. We are different people - none of us has the SAME relationship with God.