'Well, where are all the English people?'

Well as "mediums" are charlatans who propagate supernatural nonsense, yes, I would remain seated...It's telling that you would take a "mediums" word as truth.

 

That's good, so do I...It's already capped to non-EU citizen's and our immigration policy, despite the myths, is one of the strictest in the EU....I remind you that we are a part of the EU....So you want us to leave the EU despite the fact that our membership, despite its faults, is beneficial to the economy and business?

 

I've already dealt with this..I repeat, there is no causational relationship between unemployment and immigration. Your point also conveniently overlooks the fact that Brits emmigrate but rarely "assimilate" in places like Spain. The free movement of people within the EU is an essential dynamic component of the economy and is a fluid process. Curbing the free movement of people within the EU is a non-starter.


The notion that EU "immigration" reduces wage levels throughout the economy is another myth. It is true, that some unskilled and non-unionized sectors of the workforce are affected. However, that is not an argument for restricting the flow of EU "immigration", but rather increasing the existing wages and conditions of the existing UK workforce.

 

I agree with the theoretical argument that in principle governments' prioritize the needs of their own people. But in practice this is fantasy. We are a signatory to the EU, a central tenet of which is the free movement of capital, goods, services and workers. The reality is we live in a capitalist society.. You bemoan my "leftist" views. But these views are consistent with the introduction of a more regulatory framework within the EU which would ensure capitalism is kept in check. This would result in the kind of labour protectionist policies that we both agree is principally a positive thing. However, you are in favour of centre-right governments', the social policies of which inevitably lead to the opposite outcomes. You cannot have it both ways.

 

This analysis I agree with, and fits in with my position above.

 

No it's fact.

As I said earlier in the thread, multiculturalism as a policy creates the conditions for social strife. Be honest.

Just say it, you mean to say racism.

I love how you multicult zombies attempt to assume a position of intellectual and moral superiority, the irony is hilarious.

 

I'd never even heard of the guy before, thanks though.

 

True, they do promote supernatural nonsense, AGW for example. I share your low opinion of news media, but wouldn`t go as far as to dismiss out of hand, information provided by a specific mediam simply through prejudice.

 

I provided google search links so that he could pick and choose at leisure, to which he didn't respond anyways.

 

I doubt if anything that doesn`t fit his agenda would be appreciated.

 

My "agenda" is to dispel myths. The idea that if we stopped immigration, unemployment would necessarily come down is nonsense. So too is the notion that multiculuralism is the cause of strife. There is no controvertible evidence to support either.

 

In the case of the U.S. we have approximately 8 million illegal immigrants holding positions, with an even greater number of natural born citizens unemployed. The argument that these are jobs Americans won't do, is absurd. For one, I've been doing these jobs all my life, and in this economy, people will do what they have to. The argument that illegal immigrants expand the economy is absurd as well. First, the money illegals earn and spend, would be earned and spent by a citizen if that position were available to them. Second, natural born citizens are not likely to send their money anywhere, as illegal immigrants do. We loose over $20 billion to Mexico annually, and they cost us WAY more than that through the use and abuse of our social services, incarceration... etc. The other day, a new hole in the system was found where illegals were taking advantage of tax loopholes, we got taken for another four billion.

To add injury to insult, the vast majority of these folks do not give a crap about being American, they're just here for the wealth, they hold allegiance to their homelands, they stick to their own kind and develop communities which just resemble their origin.

These two things together cause great social strife.

 

In Denver it is remarkable to see the change in neighborhoods. I lived in an area that was mostly Hispanic with a Vietnamese section a few blocks over. We moved out about 12 years ago and when we go back it parts of it look like a third world country. The Vietnamese section is still in good order as they seem to take care of their property but where I lived and 6 blocks over where the grandparents lived is turning into a slum. Its a shame.

 

I've been consistently impressed by Asians and many aspects of their various cultures. I've met one Asian guy, just one, who I thought was a toolbag. He was probably 2nd or 3rd generation Chinese.

 

The truth is, is stands to reason that nobody really has a clue how many illegal's there are. That is a separate issue. What the debate has been about is legal immigration, but if you want to talk about illegals then fine. I accept that illegal immigration does have an effect on the pay rates of many low paid and semi-unskilled jobs. The illegal status of illegal immigrants means that normally they will be paid cash in hand by their unscrupulous employers which undercuts the wages of low paid semi-unskilled jobs of the workers of the host country. This is a scandal. But the employers are also responsible for this situation. They have a responsibility to ensure that the workers they hire are legal. If they discover they are illegal it is their duty to report those in question to the relevant authorities. But many don't because they prefer the cheaper labour.

 

We'd have the same issue if they were granted amnesty. Though they'd be legal, they'd still pledge allegiance to Mexico or wherever. There is not much of a melting pot, there is a mosaic at odds with the other pieces around them.

 

If various world nations truly wanted to be like Western nations, they would mimic the West at home, rather than immigrating to it.

 

Facts and evidence won`t convince you, you have a closed mind. Over saturated, incompatible multiculturalism can only lead to misery, history proves it, present day problems confirm it, but you will never see.

 

Do legal immigrants not pay taxes? If they do then how is that not contributing? Furthermore how many of America's big earners do you think have their money stashed away in offshore tax havens? Are they contributing?

 

You and others keep saying this but the facts are that the richest most successful countries in the world are multi cultural so Im unsure which particular history you are referring to.

 

With unemployment this high here in the States, what sense does it make to import even more legal or illegal immigrants?

As far as the tax havens go, I'm not one to defend that, especially when it basically amounts to full out tax evasion.

Illegal immigration still cost us more than any revenue lost through offshore banking.

 

There is never a melting pot with immigrants.

The melting pot occurs with their children and grandchildren, who become farther and farther removed from their "home" culture and are more and more likely to have relationships and traditions outside of that small sphere.

As you demonstrate here, the problem with immigration is mostly one of ignorance; in this case, ignorance of how immigrants have been blended into our society throughout history.

 

You say its a fact - I say its your opinion coz you''ve not been able to provide any verifiable evidence.

the existence of flying saucers - is a fact - right ?

 

Sense or not - you've got it.

You're obviously not rich enough to have an off shore account. Any tax accountant , worth his salt, would advise an expat working abroad to take full advantage of protecting his/her foreign earnings .

Illegal immigrants often work much harder and for much less than the work-shy indigenous labour force. More profits for their employers busineses , who might otherwise not survive and pay tax on their now profitable businesses.

cheers


..

 

NONSENSE.

its not mulitculturalism that creates conditions for social strife it is the level of bigotry, parochial ignorance, xenophobia and racism that does it.

Ive found that a willingness to believe the monculturalist rants about "others"
and the eeevils of immigrants demonstrates a lack of intellectual honesty, but it is neither ironic nor hilarious. Its simply pathetic.