The real Islam

With the rise of nation-states and the Protestant Reformation, the theory of divine right justified the king's absolute authority in both political and spiritual matters- Christian
The conception of ordination brought with it largely unspoken parallels with the Anglican and Catholic priesthood, but the overriding metaphor in James's handbook was that of a father's relation to his children. "Just as no misconduct on the part of a father can free his children from obedience to the fifth commandment,[1] James also had printed his Defense of the Right of Kings in the face of English theories of inalienable popular and clerical rights. The divine right of kings, or divine-right theory of kingship, is a political and religious doctrine of royal and political legitimacy. It asserts that a monarch is subject to no earthly authority, deriving his right to rule directly from the will of God. The king is thus not subject to the will of his people, the aristocracy, or any other estate of the realm, including (in the view of some, especially in Protestant countries) the church. more Christian

The church was the final guarantor that Christian kings would follow the laws and constitutional traditions of their ancestors and the laws of the presumptive god and of justice. even more Christian.

Our legal system is based on Roman law but that doesn't mean its not American.
You haven't educated yourself enough.

 

Christian doctrine is found in the bible. Bodins doctrine is found in the writings of bodin. Patrick Henry in "Common Sense" used biblical doctrine to demonstrate the illegitimacy of the divine rule of monarchs, giving birth to government of by and for the people.

 

No. Christian doctrine is found in the bible AND in writings by Christian scholars AND writings by Christian religious leaders. Only in extreme fundamentalist Christian sects is the bible the ONLY reference and even there there is careful cherry picking of verses to follow. Few Christians turn the other cheek, or willingly give their coat to a robber, or give up all they have and follow Jesus. Last time I saw there is not a huge ragged Christian army out on the street casting out demons and proclaiming the good news of salvation through jesus christ. And just like Islam there are many disagreements about doctrine. Even in Iran, where Shia Muslims are the majority there is not monolithic loyalty to the Imam. The government just had elections and political power is shared between a formal democratic structure and the Imams led by Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. There are Christian, Jewish, and Muslim minorities that are constantly pushing for liberalization. Religious minorities are not not being systematically killed, expelled, or forcefully converted as happened in Spain. Frankly its a bit of a political mess. Outside of Iran where Sunni Muslims are 90% things are even more chaotic. Disagreement is everywhere. And last time I looked there is no Muslim sci-fi brain control parasite that gets injected into the heads of the believers to make them obedient robots. Actually I'm more concerned about the robotic nature of the republicans in Congress who have wasted so much time in voting to repeal the Supreme Court validated Affordable Care Act 37 times.

 

I have an important question we must ask regarding the discussion about christian and islamic justification for divine right: is there any direct justification for divine right to rule in the koran and the bible? Both religions were used by kings and sultans and thus it's expected that they willl try to find theological justifications for their rule,but I think the important thing is not what later theologians were encouraged to interpret, but rather the original texts themselves.

So, does anyone know of any dircet justification for a caliph in the koran (or hadith I guess)? and does anyone know of any direct justification for divine right of kings in the bible?

 

Yes of course and as I already stated, the evidence points to her being 16 or 19 rather than what you claim so the point is moot.

Slavery, women abuse, girls being buried alive at birth were all too common in Arab before Islam. Mohammad (pbuh) put a stop to it all. Can you name one singular person who was as influential?

http://www.al-islam.org/restatement/3.htm

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You can quote anything out of context and change its meaning. For instance the Quran says Do not offer prayers.... The sentence continues when you are drunk. You could just quote the first part and say prayers are forbidden according to the Quran but you would be wrong wouldn't you?

And may I ask who is heading the empire? What nations, governments are involved and how is this empire being organized. Would love to see what fiction you can come up with.

 

Nonsense. A Pope isnt a part of christian doctrine. It is CATHOLIC doctrine. Just as the divine rule of monarchs is no part of christian doctrine. Back in the day, bibles were written in Latin. Most people didnt read their own language, let alone latin. "Christian" doctrine became whatever the catholic church said was doctrine. Invention of the printing press, widespread publication of the bible and the spread of literacy and the text of the bible demonstrated the illigitimacy of the divine rule of the catholic church and whomever they ordained with that authority. The theory of the "divine rule of monarchs" was an invention of Europeans, necessary to preserve their own authority after discrediting the catholics authority

 

OK so you're a fundie Christian and have this thing about the Papacy. Most of the Christian world disagrees with you. Not my problem. Move on.

 

There are plenty of differences between Catholics and Protestants, but Protestants still heavily borrow from Catholic doctrine and concepts.

Ever since the Gnostics were wiped out by Catholics, there wasn't much for Protestants to draw from other than many Catholic-spawned ideas.

For example, the Bible doesn't talk much about the afterlife, but many of the modern conceptions of it come from the writings of St. Augustine and Dante -- even among Protestants.

Protestants reject many of the trappings of Catholics like the hierarchy and indulgences, but they retain many of the same concepts and interpretations.

There isn't that much of a difference between Catholic and Protestant Bibles either.

 

Thats because the divine rule of the catholic church or the divine rule of monarchs doesnt come from the bible. The Catholic church and European writers seeking to maintain the authority of monarchs made it up. Yes they were christians, no, what they made up wasnt from christian doctrine.

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Im an atheist who believes that christian doctrine is found in the bible.

 

Well guess what? It's not all there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_theology

 

I'm almost with you. But I'm lazy, so I'll just want to you to provide sources in the koran that directly justifies a caliph. Do that and I fully agree.

 

The problem is that your extremist want to kill me and my extremist don't want to kill you. So I say go (*)(*)(*)(*) yourself.

 

What about the Coulter critter?

 

What a stupid comment.

 

With Muslims it just a few extremists killing in retaliation. With the US, its the democratically elected Government killing people around the world in the name of democracy and condoned by a large portion of the American population including so called moderates. Which do you think is worse?

 

The only maggots who overwhelmingly voted for Obama, next to blacks, are muslims. Somewhere between 85-90%, an indisputable landslide. Excluding all other Americans, we have muslims in America (through the force of their vote) killing their brothers and sisters in Allah, with the US military and Obama the Drone Warrior.

Islam has made it clear to the world that it is well versed in deception and murder. Now let us get on with that peace game you guys love to discuss but never practice.

If Mohammed isnt residing in the deepest, most horrifying pit in hell for leading an army of death soldiers then nobody is, and hell is nonexistent.

 

70% Jews voted for Obama, 80% in the 2008 election. 75% of people from religions which are a minority in US voted for Obama. In all more than 50% of the American population voted for Obama. Glad you think that more than half the US population is comprised of killers and murderers.

Actually that is the US but you live in your own la la land so no use arguing with you based on facts.

 

I thought you were the one saying how evil we Americans are. But while your sitting with your people in butt(*)(*)(*)(*)istan and you hear US missiles raining down in your neighborhood, you will sleep well knowing muslims in America have your back, by voting the man in who excels at killing your people.

 

First, let me understand this retaliation part before we get into the US Gov't. What did the secretary on the 90th floor of the WTC do that deserved to have a jet liner flown up her ass in retaliation? How about the little kid that was watching his dad run a marathon? What did he do to deserve retaliation that equaled having his body shredded by flying nails out of a bomb?

 

I was merely talking about collective guilt. Americans voted for their Government. Muslims did not vote for any of the extremists blowing bombs. Learn the difference.

I didn't vote for Obama but over 50% of Americans did. You are of course implying that over 50% of Americans are murderers.

 

Wasnt national policy that motivates them to blow up bombs, it is Islam.

 

Yes. The Islam which mentions no such thing in the Quran.

 

And then there is the real world the rest of us dwell within.

[3.151] We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve, because they set up with Allah that for which He has sent down no authority, and their abode is the fire, and evil is the abode of the unjust.


[2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.(*)

[2.193] And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah...(*)

2.216] Fighting is enjoined on you, and h is an object of dislike to you; and it may be that you dislike a thing while it is good for you, and it may be that you love a thing while it is evil for you, and Allah knows, while you do not know.

[2.244] And fight in the way of Allah,...

[2.246] ...May it not be that you would not fight if fighting is ordained for you? They said: And what reason have we that we should not fight in the way of Allah, and we have indeed been compelled to abandon our homes and our children. But when fighting was ordained for them, they turned back, except a few of them, and Allah knows the unjust.

[3.169] And reckon not those who are killed in Allah's way as dead; nay, they are alive (and) are provided sustenance from their Lord;

[4.74] Therefore let those fight in the way of Allah, who sell this world's life for the hereafter; and whoever fights in the way of Allah, then be he slain or be he victorious, We shall grant him a mighty reward.

[4.76] Those who believe fight in the way of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the way of the Shaitan. Fight therefore against the friends of the Shaitan; surely the strategy of the Shaitan is weak.

[9.5] So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

[9.111] Surely Allah has bought of the believers their persons and their property for this, that they shall have the garden; they fight in Allah's way, so they slay and are slain;(*)

[9.123] O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

[47.4] So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them

 

Those quotes all refer to war or to specific situations. Do you think a person in the army who died fighting for your nation is someone to be proud of or is a murderer?

 

He is a murderer. Who are we kidding though? Islam produces savages and decreasing their global population dramatically increases safety of Christians, Jews, gays, ideology opponents and activists, etc etc...in the Islamic world.

Having said that, America empowers Islamic radicals in the middle east because it actually is an evil regime that no democratic election will change no matter what Americans vote for. All American troops need to be taken to the US mainland and they never will, and you dont seem to understand why.