The real Islam

The question may seem innocuous on the surface but it is not. It is one of the most serious questions every religious person should be asking themselves but unfortunately few seem to consider it.

The number of people killed throughout history on the basis of "God said so" is large and this is still going on today.

 

I agree.

2 Corinthians 11:14
And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.

2 Corinthians 11:3
But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ.

Matthew 7:15
Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.

But sometimes the voice of the Divine can be heard, even from an alley:
[video=youtube;yruRt7mQWgg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yruRt7mQWgg[/video]

 

I do not deny that divine inspiration might be possible. The problem is when folks think that every word out of the mouth of some pompous human dressed in holy garb is taken as such or that every word written in a book written by humans is divine.

I think your point is a very good one. These religious folks that believe in Satan and the Bible, what do they think ? That Satan is going to show up with horns, a tail, and fire coming out of his nose? And somehow this is going to win over believers to his cause.

Abject stupidity.

 

Yes. The biggest problem is when people seek to find fault with others rather than within. Ultimately religion is about a personal internal struggle to find our way to the Divine. The internal Ijtihad to deal with our personal 'Old Man'. All other paths lead to error and tragedy. Or as Christians say:

Matthew 7:1-5
Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

Matthew 7:13
Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.

It is easier to judge an angry Muslim half way around the world than to deal with the deeper darkness in our own hearts.

 

Or to recognize that the problem with Islam is the same as the problem with Christianity. The only difference at this point in time is separation of church and state (which has severely limited the power of the Church).

All the other factors are roughly the same:

Both think they are the only spokespeople for God and that they know "the truth" as if God sits down on a regular basis and converses with their religious leaders. How often do we hear some raging minister at the pulpit "God says this and God says that" most of which is not even in the Bible never mind coming from God !

Both brainwash their Children from a young age with fear. If you do not follow this man made doctrine you will burn in hell forever. The psychological impact on the subconscious of a young child is irrevocable in many cases if not most.

Both engage in political activism in order to force their religious beliefs on others.

Both side with evil so long as the evil-doers believe in the right God.

The message of Christ is not well known among the religious right. Either that or they just like to ignore it.

 

If you read completely you will see that surah talking about those who want to harm Islam , if you read completely surah says that if they want forgiveness dont hurt them , ensure the safety of them , do escorting for them and move them to where they want to go .

You have to read Quran completely , then you can see more easy what it is talking about : ))) choosing words with tweezers does not contribute to you out of misunderstanding .

 

Its comical how similar the Muslims and Christians are.

You each have your own outlandish interpretations of your "holy" books.

There always has to be some kind of interpretation that has nothing to do with the actual words in your korans and bibles.

 

Then read it and see if I do any adding or changing , you dont need to me . Dont try to blame , try to understand .

 

The problem is not isolated entirely to judeo-christian tradition. I've done circle a few times with some Wiccan covens that are in their own way just as intolerant. Real Beetchy Witches! I think it's a condition of humanity to be 'special' and exclusionary. Fortunately the whole neopagan movement is so chaotic and full of dissenting splinter groups that no one can say "I have the one true path!" and have any but a handful of people follow them. Sort of like the Christian church was in the early days. Frankly I hope it never changes.

There is wisdom in many religions. But heck, there's wisdom in a Bugs Bunny cartoon if you look deeply enough. As Sam Clemens said he did not object to religion as long as it didn't hurt anyone. One mans religion will always be another mans belly laugh (R. Heinlien). As long as we maintain this genial attitude towards the whole religious impulse and focus on a personal journey for touching the face of God (or Goddess) and less concern about what our neighbor is up to we'll be fine. Although I am vexed by the religious right I understand them as well. Frightened of their jobs, family, future. Poor, under-educated, desperately seeking reassurance for their wretched lives, they are easy targets for financial, political, and religious exploitation.

 

????? I'd say that's one of the glaring differences between the two. There is nothing within Christian doctrine that would support the joining of church and state. "My kingdom is not of this world", "render unto Ceasar, that which is Ceasars", "obey all authorities instituted among men" and all of that. Whereas within Islamic doctrine church and state are one and the same. The Islamic caliphates that ruled over much of the lands of Islam from 632 to the 1920s were in place because of the dictates of Islamic doctrine. Reformers of the Protestant reformation used the text of the bible to demonstrate the illegitimacy of the rule of the catholic church. Reformers of Islamic doctrine use the text of the Koran and hadiths to demonstrate the illegitimacy of any rule other than the Islamic caliphate.

 

At the risk of your pulling my leg, my answer is, YES. Islam is definitely an Empire in the making.

 

And Christianity was once an empire and it got too big and collapsed. Learn from history and stop fretting.

 

Oh, you mean lets treat Islamists like they treated Asians and Germans here in the US during WWII? Yes, lets make that huge mistake again because it helped us become a better society...lol. No thanks. I think I will refuse to listen to your paranoid rants because they are too irrational.

 

lol Try being Pagan in a state that is 99% Christian.

 

I agree with you that this is how Jesus wanted things to be and was clearly his teaching.

Unfortunately much of Christianity does not seem to think much of the teachings of Jesus on many counts .. most of all in relation to separation of Church and State.

For 1400 years the Church was joined at the hip with the State and the horrible atrocities that resulted from those 1400 years of horror makes Islam look like the kind brother of Christianity. It was Napoleon's great achievement to stop this evil union and the Church never recovered its former power after Napoleon.

Even now the there is a struggle for power that rears its ugly head from time to time. Here in the US on only needs to read what Barry Goldwater has to say on the issue when he rails against the influence of the religious right no the conservative party - essentially telling elected leaders what to do.

The Catholic Church started earlier and finished earlier but there is little difference historically other than the time period.

Today there are a number of Secular Muslim states. Syria is one of them. Unfortunately if the pro Al Qaeda rebels get in power Syria will go the way of Sharia law.

Agreed

 

In other words, you'd advise the rape victim to lie back and enjoy the inevitable. 'It will be over quickly enough. And then you can file a police report. And the rapist will be caught and imprisoned.'

 

Actually if you want to get all history about this, the Ottoman caliphate and the Romanov and Hapsberg dynasties were all more or less supported by the Divine right of Kings. The caliph and emperors all had both civil and religious features in their function. Calling them fundamentally different is really splitting hairs. And they all ended about the same time after the end of the WWI. The papacy wasn't far behind. For practical purposes, the temporal power of the popes ended on 20 September 1870, when the Italian Army breached the Aurelian Walls at Porta Pia and entered Rome. Formally, the temporal power was restored in 1929 with the treaty between the Vatican State and Italy (Concordat), when the papacy accepted to have no more interests on Italy, its closest neighbor, and therefore on any other country. Some small degree of temporal power persists in the formal government of the Vatican City as an independent state.

So let's not get all paranoid about the mixing of state and church being an exclusive Muslim issue. Remember it was the Christian Papacy that divided up the world between Spain and Portugal in the 1494 Treaty of Tordesillas. It was never repudiated but as other nations rose in power the attitude towards the treaty that other governments had was expressed in a statement attributed to France's King Francis I, "Show me Adam's will!"

Muslims are not superhuman brainwashed zombies. Like all people what individuals want varies and is limited by real world considerations. Give me a fire and brimstone preacher who does not want the power to turn every person in the world into a God fearing bible thumping Christian who obeys Gods law and I'll show you a liar.

 

Your leg is safe. It was a serious question. Thanks for the answer.

 

The GLARING difference is that the Catholic churches rule over the empire was in contradiction of Christian doctrine, whereas the Islamic Caliphates were according to islamic doctrine.

 

No such thing within christian doctrine. Whereas the divine right of the Islamic Caliph is a part of Islamic doctrine.

 

Need a link or anything?

 

He also said Muslims are not allowed to have non-Muslim friends. I must tell my Muslim friends about this, they evidently didn't hear the news! I also bet that, like a good Christian, he never ate a shellfish in his whole life...

 

What I'm not in conform with is their Jihad
and how they treat their supposed infidels.

 

You're joking right?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_right_of_kings
Since there hasn't been a Caliph since 1924 it's hard to say what a modern caliphate would look like any more than it would be hard to say what a democratic socialist america would look like. Or one where women were the majority in Congress. We have enough REAL problems in the world without creating 'what if' bogymen to scare children with.
You really should read up on what real caliphates were all about. It would help you sleep better at night.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caliph

 

Read your own source. Educate yourself.

Nothing to do with Christian doctrine. Based upon Roman law.