Are Matthew, Mark, Luke and John's grandchildren: Palestinians?????

DennisTate · Nov 24, 2023

Jay Spillers.... " Remember in the gospels, the Jews looked down on the Samaritains, yet Jesus gave the parable of the good Samaritan and he went and ministered to them" Kinda wonder if it is like that with the Palestinians today?" [Jay Spillers]
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Yes.... and there is another fascinating aspect of this entire situation. Mr. Tsvi Misinai heads up an organization that has evidence that the bulk of the Palestinians may well be descended from Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, James, and the one hundred and twenty who met together that famous Pentecost when the Holy Spirit was poured out. You see........ the Messianic Jews of the second century DID NOT join in the Bar Kochba Revolt and thus....... WERE NOT expelled from the Holy Land when the Bar Kochba Revolt was crushed. Their great, great, great, great grandchildren were given the choice to either become Muslims.... or die..... so they became Muslims. Now they are being pressured to shoot rockets at the Rabbinic Jewish community..... due to a misunderstanding from way back in the first century.. .... You may find this to be rather astonishing....... but the Rabbi's who rejected John the Baptist and Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus taught that any husband could divorce his wife for many, many, many reasons....... whereas both John the Baptist and Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus had rather tough teachings on divorce......... This was a major reason as to why the Messianic Jewish community eventually separated from the Rabbinic Jewish community................... Things really came to a head during the time of Rabbi Akiva and the Bar Kochba Revolt!!!!!

Are the Palestinians the Jews NOT expelled from Judaea after Bar Kochba Revolt?

DennisTate said: ↑

Because Orthodox Jewish scholars firmly believe in the restoration of the lost tribes of Israel this new genetic research that indicates that the Palestinians are "Jewish" may play a significant role in genuine peace coming between Israelis and Palestinians!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsvi_Misinai

"Tsvi Misinai claims that the majority of the Palestinian peopleincluding those with Israeli citizenship or residency, known variously as Arab citizens of Israel, Arab Israelis, Israeli Arabs, including the Bedouin Arabs of Israelare descendants of the ancient Hebrews, as most of the world's Jewish ethnic divisions are.[6] Furthermore, he claims that at least half of them are quietly aware of this fact.[7]

According to Misinai, unlike the ancestors of the modern day Jews who were city dwellers to a large extent, the Hebrew ancestors of the Palestinians were rural dwellers, and were allowed to remain in the land of Israel to work the land and supply Rome with grain and olive oil."

Misinai states the topic of Hebrew origin was spoken of openly by Palestinians until relatively recent history, much as the Egyptians or Lebanese are aware of their origin in the ancient Egyptians and Phoenicians respectively, even if the topic arouses the passions of those wishing to stress or de-emphasise it." (Wikipedia.org)

http://www.drbo.org/chapter/26048.htm
"And Elias the prophet stood up, as a fire, and his word burnt like a torch................Who anointedst kings to penance, and madest prophets successors after thee. [9] Who wast taken up in a whirlwind of fire, in a chariot of fiery horses. [10] Who art registered in the judgments of times to appease the wrath of the Lord, to reconcile the heart of the father to the son, and to restore the tribes of Jacob."
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Sid Roth....

"The first Church was Jewish. If a Gentile wanted to follow the Messiah, he had to convert to Judaism. Then Peter had a revelation that Gentiles did not have to convert to Judaism to be saved (see Acts 10). The Jerusalem Council meeting determined that Gentiles did not have to be circumcised. There were only four easily followed requirements. They were to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood (Acts 15:20). After all, James said, they could learn more about God by hear- ing the words of Moses every Saturday in the syna- gogue (see Acts 15:21). This opened the door to widespread church growth among the Gentiles. So many Gentiles were saved that the Jewish believers became a minority.

The first Jewish followers of Jesus were called Nazarenes (part of the Essenes sect of Judaism dis- cussed in Chapter 3). They practiced traditional Judaism and were widely accepted by unbelieving Jews. Early in the second century their numbers reached 400,000.1 In the Book of Acts, the early church fathers said to Paul: You see, brother, how many myriads [tens of thousands] of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law (Acts 21:20).

The Nazarenes acceptance by traditional Jews came to a halt in A.D. 135 when Rabbi Akiba declared that Bar Kochba was the Jewish Messiah. His followers hoped he would lead them to victory over the Romans. The Nazarenes refused to fight because they believed Jesus was the true Messiah rather than Bar Kochba. They were branded traitors, not because they believed in Jesus, but because they would not join Bar Kochbas armed struggle. Bar Kochba and his followers were quickly slaughtered by the Romans. Afterward, Jews were banned from Jerusalem.

History shows that as the center of the Christian faith moved from Jerusalem to Rome, it became increasingly Hellenized, adopting pagan customs and philosophies rather than the God-ordained practices and beliefs of the Bible. At the same time, Christianity became increasingly anti-Jewish."
[Sid Roth from his book The Incomplete Church, Chapter 7, page 64, 65)

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DennisTate · Nov 24, 2023

Here is another intriguing question.......
was the pacifism of the Messianic Jewish community during the second century somewhat exaggerated......
due to Messianic Jews not fully understanding what was probably meant by some of Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus questions and statements????????

Is it lawful on the Sabbath to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?

DennisTate said: ↑

"These are the soldiers going into Gaza. It feels like Yom Kippur at the front lines."

What did Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus mean by the question :
"And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace." [Mark 3:4}

I believe that the Scribes and Pharisees remained silent.... because they knew their own history quite well......

... Book of Machabees 1, chapter two :

" And it was told to the king's men, and to the army that was in Jerusalem in the city of David, that certain men who had broken the king's commandment, were gone away into the secret places in the wilderness, and that many were gone after them. 32 And forthwith they went out towards them, and made war against them on the sabbath day, 33 And they said to them: Do you still resist? come forth, and do according to the edict of king Antiochus, and you shall live. 34 And they said: We will not come forth, neither will we obey the king's edict, to profane the sabbath day. 35 And they made haste to give them battle.

36 But they answered them not, neither did they cast a stone at them, nor stopped up the secret places, 37 Saying: Let us all die in our innocency: and heaven and earth shall be witnesses for us, that you put us to death wrongfully. 38 So they gave them battle on the sabbath: and they were slain with their wives, and their children, and their cattle, to the number of a thousand persons. 39 And Mathathias and his friends heard of it, and they mourned for them exceedingly. 40 And every man said to his neighbour: If we shall all do as our brethren have done, and not fight against the heathens for our lives, and our justifications: they will now quickly root us out of the earth.

41 And they determined in that day, saying: Whosoever shall come up against us to fight on the sabbath day, we will fight against him: and we will not all die, as our brethren that were slain in the secret places. 42 Then was assembled to them the congregation of the Assideans, the stoutest of Israel, every one that had a good will for the law. 43 And all they that fled from the evils, joined themselves to them, and were a support to them. 44 And they gathered an army, and slew the sinners in their wrath, and the wicked men in their indignation: and the rest fled to the nations for safety. 45 And Mathathias and his friends went round about, and they threw down the altars: " [i Machabees chapter two]

....
It seems to me that the general tendency to "turn the other cheek" is not meant to be a moral absolute that should include simply allowing evil people, such as the Greco - Syrian armies in the time of the Maccabees... or a Hamas or Hezbollah terrorist in 2023...... to be free to kill us and take our children to be slaves or hostages... ......... In other words.... I believe that this question by Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus hints that a true Christian could be a soldier in the I. D. F. .... or the USA army....... or a police officer... and could even kill an evil doer.... even on the Sabbath..... if they are threatening lives or damaging property........

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/VMfcZxNs_wQ
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Here is the Book of Machabees chapter two so that you can get the entire context of this question.

https://www.drbo.org/chapter/45002.htm

The zeal and success of Mathathias. His exhortation to his sons at his death.

1 In those days arose Mathathias the son of John, the son of Simeon, a priest of the sons of Joarib, from Jerusalem, and he abode in the mountain of Modin. 2 And he had five sons: John who was surnamed Gaddis: 3 And Simon, who was surnamed Thasi: 4 And Judas, who was called Machabeus: 5 And Eleazar, who was surnamed Abaron: and Jonathan, who was surnamed Apphus.

6 These saw the evils that were done in the people of Juda, and in Jerusalem. 7 And Mathathias said: Woe is me, wherefore was I born to see the ruin of my people, and the ruin of the holy city, and to dwell there, when it is given into the hands of the enemies? 8 The holy places are come into the hands of strangers: her temple is become as a man without honour. 9 The vessels of her glory are carried away captive: her old men are murdered in the streets, and her young men are fallen by the sword of the enemies. 10 What nation hath not inherited her kingdom, and gotten of her spoils?

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?
Is it lawful, even on the Sabbath, to kill an evil doer?

*
Yes
1 vote(s)
50.0%

No
0 vote(s)
0.0%

I am not entirely certain???? This is an intriguing question??!!!
1 vote(s)
50.0%

Change Your Vote

DennisTate · Nov 24, 2023

One of the positive results of this information becoming common knowledge would be that Christians, Jews and Muslims would pray about the Israeli - Palestinian conflict differently........

Muslims do study the Christian scriptures at least enough in order to be able to debate with Christians and so.......

... they would know that there is no way that the original Messianic Jewish community of the first and second century would approve of their great, great, great... grandchildren shooting rockets at
the Rabbinic Jewish communities who are still observing the laws of Moses......
because the original Messianic Jewish community was noted for being zealous toward the law of Moses as well.

Acts 21:20 New International Version (NIV ")When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: “You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsvi_Misinai

Proportion of Hebrew-descended Palestinians[edit]

A thinly disguised star of David on a doortop in Yatta, southern Mount Hebron
Tsvi Misinai claims that nearly 90 per cent of the Palestinian people living in Israel proper and the occupied territories are of Hebrew descent (with the percentage among the population of the Gaza Strip being higher than 90 per cent),[6] but a greatly reduced percentage among Palestinian refugees living outside those areas.[31]

In his book Brother shall not lift his sword against Brother, Misinai puts forward the following statistics pertaining to the proportion of the "Descendants of Israel" and the "Brethren of Israel" populations among the Palestinians and Arab Israelis, as of December 2007. It is detailed as four main areas (the West Bank excluding East Jerusalem, Gaza strip, East Jerusalem and Israel proper) and are as follows:

In the Israeli-occupied West Bank—not counting East Jerusalem, the number of permanent residents was 956,000, of which over 580,000 (61 per cent) were Descendants of Israel. Another 27 per cent were 259,000 Brethren of Israel (of whom were 158,000 descendants of the Edomites and 101,000 descendants of the Moabites). The remainder included 43,000 Arabs (4.5 per cent), 44,000 descendants of the Roman Army, 24,000 Christians from Distant Places and 6,000 Kurds.[32]

In the Gaza Strip, there were 891,000 permanent residents, including Bedouin. Out of the non-Bedouin, 275,000 were Descendants of Israel, 520,000 were Brethren of Israel (approximately 270,000 descendants of the Moabites and approximately 250,000 descendants of the Edomites), 43,000 descendants of the Roman Army, 4,000 Arabs who live in the Jabali’ya refugee camp; 3,400 Canaanites and 2,700 Philistines all living in Gaza city, and 3,000 Druze that live in the Dir al-Balakh refugee camp. Among the Descendants of Israel in the Gaza Strip, 30,000 are descendants of the Samaritans and 245,000 (27.5 per cent) are descendants of authentic Jews. The population of the Gaza Strip also includes 40,000 Bedouin. The internal distribution of the Gaza Bedouin is 18,000 descendants of Moabites, 14,000 descendants of Edomites and 8,000 Descendants of Israel. In addition to the Bedouin, the total number of the Descendants of Israel is 283,000 (32 per cent), of the Brethren of Israel is 552,000 (62 per cent, 288,000 or 32 per cent descendants of Moabites and 264,000 or 30 per cent descendants of Edomites).[32]

Of the 200,000 non-Jewish residents of East Jerusalem, 82,000 are Descendants of the People of Israel, out of which 2,000 are descendants of Samaritans living in the Samaritan neighbourhood, A-Sumera or Al-Abid. Out of this group, 7,000 are Christians. Some 48,000 are descendants of Kurds who came during the reign of Saladin. Over 32,000 are Brethren of Israel (24,000 descendants of the Moabites and 8,000 descendants of the Edomites). Some 27,000 are of Arab origin, and constitute the main concentration of population of Arab origin among Israeli citizens today. This includes 9,000 members of the veteran Arab settlers, and 14,000 descendants of the Arab Army living in the Mount of Olives neighbourhood. There are also another 11,000 inhabitants who are recognised as non-Arab citizens: 5,000 Armenians and 6,000 non-Arab Christians from various distant locations.[32]

Within Israel proper, 642,000 (45.5 per cent) out of 1,413,000 non-Jewish residents within the Green Line (not counting East Jerusalem) are Descendants of the People of Israel. Some 457,000 are Brethren of Israel in the State of Israel (and another 32,000 in Jerusalem), or 36 per cent of all the Palestinians there (489,000 or 34.5 per cent, including Jerusalem). A further breakdown of this figure shows that the descendants of the Edomites number 166,000, and constitute 13 per cent (of the Palestinians in the State of Israel, or 174,000 or 12.5 per cent, with Jerusalem). The descendants of the Moabites number 291,000, and constitute 23 per cent (315,000 or 22 per cent with Jerusalem). The sum total of veteran inhabitants who are neither Palestinian nor Jewish is 140,000 and includes 121,000 Druze and 19,000 foreigners from Distant Places. The descendants of the Roman Army number 150,000, or 12 per cent (10.5 per cent with Jerusalem). The rest, some 16,000, or 1.25 per cent, are Arabs, (43,000 or 3 per cent with Jerusalem). The number of Palestinians within the Green Line is 1,273,000. Among the Palestinians (i.e., those without Israeli citizenship) within the Green Line (not including East Jerusalem) the percentage who are Descendants of the People of Israel is close to 50.5 per cent.[32]

Views on Palestinian identity and the Arab–Israeli conflict[edit]
Tsvi Misinai denies the existence of a separate Palestinian people as a historical identity and dismisses it as an utter fabrication. He views the Palestinian nationality as a modern socio-political construct propped up by imperialist Arab Baathist regimes, as a means of claiming rights to the land of Israel and fight the Jews. He also blames them for accentuating hostilities between the Jews and Palestinians. In his book, Misinai asserts that the Palestinian people are a part and parcel of the people of Israel, and that no other party, including an Arab one, possesses the right to compete with the rights of the People of Israel over western Eretz Yisrael and their historical kinship with most Palestinians.
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and..... Muslims should know better than to take advice from Atheists......

1972 - According to Ion Mihai Pacepa, “In 1972, the Kremlin decided to turn the whole Islamic world against Israel and the U.S. As KGB chairman Yury Andropov … [said], a billion adversaries could inflict far greater damage on America than could a few millions. We needed to instill Nazi-style hatred for the Jews throughout the Islamic world, and to turn this weapon … against Israel and its main supporter, the United States.”

https://www.tldm.org/news9/russianinfluenceonmideast.htm

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Many extreme Atheists.... love to see Muslims, Christians and Jews fighting with each other!!!!!

Especially while they ignore important ideas in their own sacred writings!!!!

DennisTate · Nov 24, 2023

If it were not for a book by near death experiencer Robert Mendelson I would never have imagined that the Koran has some powerful admonitions that could play a huge role in bringing Shalom to the Holy Land.

https://godspeaceplan.org/books-download-page/

God's Peace Plan Arabic Version (final)
God's Peace Plan English God's Peace Plan for the Holy Land
God's Peace Plan Hebrew God's Peace Plan Hebrew Version (final)
Way of Holiness and the Sacred Hoop Way of Holiness & the Sacred Hoop
What's Going On in the Holy Land What_s Going On In The Holy Land
Map of the Holy Land Map of the Holy Land
Map of the Holy Land Map of the Holy Land (Arabic & Hebrew)
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Near death experiencer Robert Mendelson ....

God's Peace Plan

for the Holy Land

A Peace Plan for Israel/Palestine

conforming to guidelines from the Bible and Qur’an
presented by

Robert Leon Mendelson

Copyright December 2010.

......
Preface

“God’s Peace for the Holy Land*”? Isn’t that a presumptuous title? Please allow

me to explain. First, since the sacred books of Judaism, Christianity and Islam

provide the guidelines supporting this solution, and since I wasn’t the one who

wrote them, calling them “God’s” seems fair. That’s why the words “presented by”

precede my name on the title page. Second, this book in no way proselytizes or

puts one religion above another. Nor does it openly or subtly encourage anyone to

convert to anything. What it does is take into account something without which

attaining peace in the Holy Land (Israel/Palestine) will forever be unattainable.

That “something” is the sacred messages delivered to each of the peoples involved

in the dispute. In this case, referencing the sacred books is more than some dry,

scholarly exercise or even a gesture of courtesy. Without taking the sacred books

into account, peace in the Holy Land will be near, if not completely, impossible.

What it boils down to is this: there are two groups of people, Palestinians and

Ashkenazi Jews (a.k.a. “Khazars”/“Eastern European Jews”) living in the Holy Land

and who appear to be genetically unrelated. In general, the belief systems

(religions) of both groups seem to direct them to subjugate and/or expel the other

group based on their being alien interlopers. Since millions of participants believe

this, and because their beliefs lead to acts of violence, finding a solution that

permits peace requires referencing their sacred literature.

Some may say the conflict has nothing to do with religion, but if this were so,

Jews wouldn’t claim “God gave us this land”. There’d be no point in doing so if it

had no importance to people. And Iran, a Persian nation, would have little interest

in a conflict concerning Semitic peoples several hundred miles away. It’s the

religious connection that brings Muslims of diverse backgrounds together in

support of Palestinians. Nor would millions of American Christians support Israel

without that support based on how they’re taught to read their Bibles." (Robert Mendelson)

.... If it were not for Robert's book I would never have guessed that the following verses are in the Koran.

Next, we come to Islam and most Palestinians.

Sura 29:46;
Dispute not…with people of the Book;

And say ye, "We believe in what hath been sent down to us [Qur’an]

and what hath been sent down to you. [Old & New Testaments]

Our God and your God is one,..."
Sura 2:136;
Say ye: "We believe in God,

and that which hath been sent down to us [Qur’an],

and that which hath been sent down to Abraham

and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the tribes [Joshua],

and in that was given to Moses, and to Jesus,

and that which was given to the prophets, from their Lord.

No difference do we make between any of them."
There are many other instances in which Muhammad told his people that

the books of the Bible were confirmed. Again, one can argue theology, but

Muslims have a choice as to whether they wish to read the Qur’an for life or

for death. Making use of the Old Testament for a solution meant for the

members of both tribes currently in the Holy Land in no way places Muslims

in other lands under any constraints in their own land. The following passage

is quite specific regarding the value of the Old Testament—properly applied;

Sura 46:12;
But before the Koran was the Book of Moses, a rule and a mercy;

and this Book confirmeth it (the Pentateuch)—in the Arabic tongue—

that those who are guilty of that wrong may be warned,

and as glad tidings to the doers of good."
“glad tidings” to “doers of good”. Muslims are supposed to be “doers of good”.

Using Old Testament Law for the descendents of those it was originally given to

in the same land in which it was originally received doesn’t violate shariah in the

least. Muhammad recited a verse including a reference to David (from the Bible)

Sura 6:85;
And we gave him Isaac and Jacob, and guided both aright;

and We had guided…among the descendants of Abraham, David …”
David said something pertinent to the situation:

Psalm 19:9-11, David;
9…The ordinances of the LORD are sure and altogether righteous.

10 They are more precious than gold, than much pure gold;

they are sweeter than honey, than honey from the comb.

11 By them is your servant warned;

in keeping them there is great reward.”
And last, an Old Testament prophecy of particular interest for Muslims

throughout the Middle East from Isaiah…

Isaiah 19:25;
The LORD Almighty will bless them, saying,

"Blessed be Egypt my people, Assyria [Iraq] my handiwork,

and Israel my inheritance."

There is value for all people to make use of this wonderful tool for peace.

Without it, well, the next two passages sum up what Muslims will do.

The first passage explains how the situation in the Holy Land is seen by

Muslims worldwide and how it effects their relations with America.

Sura 60:7-9;
7 God will, perhaps, establish good will between yourselves

and those of them whom ye take to be your enemies:

God is powerful: and God is gracious, merciful.

8 God doth not forbid you to deal with kindness and fairness

towards those who have not made war upon you on account of your religion,

or driven you forth from your homes:

for God loveth those who act with fairness.

9 Only doth God forbid you to make friends of those who,

on account of your religion,

have warred against you,

and have driven you forth from your homes,

and have aided [America & the West] those [Israel] whom drove you forth:

and whoever maketh friends of them are wrongdoers."
Palestinians weren’t allowed to return to their homes after the war in 1948.

Then, after the 1967 war, more Palestinians were displaced. The majority of

Palestinians are Muslims, and whether rightly or wrongly, injustices committed

by Israel against Palestinians are perceived as injustices against Muslims as a

religion. According to this belief, verse 9 forbids all Muslims from making peace

with either Israel or anyone who supports Israel until this issue is resolved.

To understand what this next one is saying, understand that when Jews follow

the Torah and Old Testament, they’re included as “faithful”, too.

Sura 49:9-10;
9 If two bodies of the faithful are at war,

then make ye peace between them;

and if one of them wrong the other,

fight against that party which doth the wrong,

until they come back to the precepts of God;

if they come back, make peace between them with fairness,

and act impartially; God loveth those who act with impartiality.

10 Only the faithful [those who obey God's statutes] are brethren;

wherefore make peace between your brethren;

and fear God, that ye may obtain mercy."
The command to Muslims is for un-ending war until all parties abide by the

“precepts of God”. For Israelites, the precepts for sharing the land were placed

in the Old Testament. There was no need for covenants regarding land sharing

in the Holy Land to be duplicated in the Qur’an. Nor does referencing them in

any way make a Muslim disobedient to God. On the contrary—it enables them

to receive God’s mercy." (Robert Mendelson)
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Now you know some more of the reasoning as to why I would begin this other discussion:

The Tate Plan for Shalom in the Middle East!

Injeun · Nov 25, 2023

I don't know. It is my understanding that the numbers of Jews and Palestinians who have always inhabited that land is very small. And that the vast majority of todays so called Palestinians are the offspring of people from all over the middle east, who came to the area as migrant workers at the turn of the last century, and stayed. They (the great majority) aren't and never have been indigenous. As a causal observer from the other side of the earth, it seems to me to be a hellish situation to be born into, with all the animosity and the combative, dominating nature of Islam.

yabberefugee · Nov 25, 2023

DennisTate said: ↑

Yes.... and there is another fascinating aspect of this entire situation. Mr. Tsvi Misinai heads up an organization that has evidence that the bulk of the Palestinians may well be descended from Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, James, and the one hundred and twenty who met together that famous Pentecost when the Holy Spirit was poured out. You see........ the Messianic Jews of the second century DID NOT join in the Bar Kochba Revolt and thus....... WERE NOT expelled from the Holy Land when the Bar Kochba Revolt was crushed. Their great, great, great, great grandchildren were given the choice to either become Muslims.... or die..... so they became Muslims. Now they are being pressured to shoot rockets at the Rabbinic Jewish community..... due to a misunderstanding from way back in the first century.. .... You may find this to be rather astonishing....... but the Rabbi's who rejected John the Baptist and Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus taught that any husband could divorce his wife for many, many, many reasons....... whereas both John the Baptist and Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus had rather tough teachings on divorce......... This was a major reason as to why the Messianic Jewish community eventually separated from the Rabbinic Jewish community................... Things really came to a head during the time of Rabbi Akiva and the Bar Kochba Revolt!!!!!

Are the Palestinians the Jews NOT expelled from Judaea after Bar Kochba Revolt?

Sid Roth....
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Luke was a Greek I believe.

DennisTate · Nov 25, 2023

yabberefugee said: ↑

Luke was a Greek I believe.
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True.... he was... but if he had children and grandchildren then by the time of the Bar Kochba Revolt those grandchildren would be a part of the roughly four hundred thousand Messianic Jews....
who did not join in the Bar Kochba Revolt... and thus were not expelled from the Holy Land when that revolt was crushed by Rome.

Injeun said: ↑

I don't know. It is my understanding that the numbers of Jews and Palestinians who have always inhabited that land is very small. And that the vast majority of todays so called Palestinians are the offspring of people from all over the middle east, who came to the area as migrant workers at the turn of the last century, and stayed. They (the great majority) aren't and never have been indigenous. As a causal observer from the other side of the earth, it seems to me to be a hellish situation to be born into, with all the animosity and the combative, dominating nature of Islam.
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That is what I also thought for decades......
so once I realized the possible connection between the Palestinians with the first and second century Messianic Jewish community.......
I began to pray for the Palestinians very differently........

There is a prophecy from the Roman Catholic Bible that is very relevant to this theory that has a lot of evidence that backs it up.....

https://www.drbo.org/chapter/26048.htm

And Elias the prophet stood up, as a fire, and his word burnt like a torch. 2 He brought a famine upon them, and they that provoked him in their envy, were reduced to a small number, for they could not endure the commandments of the Lord. 3 By the word of the Lord he shut up the heaven, and he brought down fire from heaven thrice. 4 Thus was Elias magnified in his wondrous works. And who can glory like to thee? 5 Who raisedst up a dead man from below, from the lot of death, by the word of the Lord God.

6 Who broughtest down kings to destruction, and brokest easily their power in pieces, and the glorious from their bed. 7 Who heardest judgment in Sina, and in Horeb the judgments of vengeance. 8 Who anointedst kings to penance, and madest prophets successors after thee. 9 Who wast taken up in a whirlwind of fire, in a chariot of fiery horses. 10 Who art registered in the judgments of times to appease the wrath of the Lord, to reconcile the heart of the father to the son, and to restore the tribes of Jacob.
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DennisTate · Nov 26, 2023

Mr. Scott Alexander Carroll brings up a major reason as to why the Rabbinic Jewish community eventually completely separated from the Messianic Jewish community who followed Rabbi Yeshua :

Scott Alexander Carroll..... "
Final Note
One additional question is why this particular trap? Other than simple
opportunity, what might have motivated the Pharisees and scribes to
concoct this unusual legal case?

The answer may rest in Jesus' public position on divorce, which would
naturally involve the question of adultery and its scope. As Mark records:
And Jesus said to them,
"Whoever puts away his wife and marries another, commits adultery
against her.
And if a woman puts away her husband, and is married to another, she also
commits adultery." (Mark 10:11-12)

This last statement, while obviously equalitarian, is an innovative
interpretation of the Law not foreseen by the Pharisees. But more
importantly, against the background of the beheading of John the Baptist at
the prompting of Queen Herodias it is unexpectedly electrifying:
The Queen may have tried to bypass the criticisms of John by divorcing
Herod's brother and remarrying Herod. But Jesus destroys the value of this
plan instantly by publicly preaching that this also would be adultery! Now
also, if Herod put Queen Herodias or her daughter away, to appease the
crowds who believed John was a prophet, this could have placed either
woman in the Pharisees' hands.

THE LAWS OF DEUTERONMY

The PA and Deut. 13:6-18 (Recap)
This helped resolve a puzzle concerning a part of John 8:1-11
As discussed in the "300 years of Commentary" booklet , I would like to

expand and credit Shabir Ally for his own accidental and unintended tip-
off.

He is a muslim apologist who critiques the Bible and prefers the Quran.
The issue concerns why Jesus used the exact expression here,
"The sinless one among you, let him first cast a stone at her..." (Jn. 8:7)
For previously, (without a second look at a certain passage in
Deuteronomy), I found that this remained a puzzle, because it does not
directly quote an O.T. Law or offer an explanation for Jesus' apparent
demand.

The Law of Moses did not require "sinless" men to initiate stonings.
So many have thought that Jesus is here (as apparently in other places)
adding to the law or raising it up to a new higher and stricter standard.
But this new insight which I will offer below, may suggest that Jesus
actually wrote out a reference to Deut. 13:6-21.

If this is the case, then His 'incomplete' quote needs to be taken in this
context, and we need to complete the idea ourselves from the Law.

That is, Jesus may have said little, that is, just enough to call the
Deuteronomic Law into memory for the scribes and Pharisees.

Jesus' Shorthand Responses:
When we (often) as modern readers assume the passage is 'self-sufficient'
or 'self-explanatory' on its face, we can make serious mistakes, or at least
miss the historical context and deeper meaning of Jesus.

An example of this is marriage, where Jesus on a few occasions appears to
give a new law or rule on marriage and divorce, i.e., divorce is only lawful
for the reason of actual adultery/fornication.

Knowing that there was a vigorous debate among the two major Rabbinical
schools on divorce, and that they and the Jews sought Jesus' opinion on it,
makes Jesus' statements much clearer and provides the scope for their
application.

Jesus on Divorce:
'Divorce was a controversial topic in Jesus' day, with two main schools of
thought, centered around two of its most famous proponents.
The first was the school of Rabbi Shammai (a more strict and unpopular
view) and second was the school of Rabbi Hillel (a more lax and popular
view).

Under the thinking of Hillel, "a man could divorce his wife if she spoiled
his dinner, if she spun, or went with unbound hair, or spoke to men in
the streets, if she spoke disrespectfully of his parents in his presence,
or if she was a brawling woman whose voice could be heard in the
next house.

Rabbi Akiba even went the length of saying...that a man could divorce
his wife if he found a woman whom he liked better and considered
more beautiful." (Barclay)
Each school of thought understood that the Mosaic law gave permission for
divorce in Deuteronomy 24:1:
When a man takes a wife and marries her, and it happens that she
finds no favor in his eyes because he has found some uncleanness in
her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce, puts it in her hand, and
sends her out of his house.

Each side knew and believed Deuteronomy 24:1; the question was, "What
constitutes uncleanness?"

The school of Rabbi Shammai understood that uncleanness meant sexual
immorality, and said this was the only valid reason for divorce.

The school of Rabbi Hillel understood uncleanness to mean any sort of
indiscretion; even to the point where for some rabbis, burning a husband's
breakfast was considered valid grounds for divorce.

So in their question, the Pharisees tried to get Jesus to side with one
teaching or the other. If He agreed with the lax school of Rabbi Hillel, it
was clear that Jesus did not take the Law of Moses seriously. If He agreed
with the strict school of Rabbi Shammai, then Jesus might become
unpopular with the multitude, who generally liked access to an easy
divorce. The religious leaders had reason to believe they had caught Jesus
on the horns of a dilemma.

The Pharisees wanted to talk about divorce and rabbinical opinions, but
Jesus wanted to go back to the Scriptures...
"By answering the question, not from Shammai or Hillel, but from
Moses, our blessed Lord defeated their malice, and confounded their
devices." (Clarke)
Jesus interpreted the meaning of the word uncleanness in the Mosaic Law,
showing that it refers to sexual immorality, not just anything that might
displease the husband. Therefore, divorce - and the freedom to remarry
without sin - is only permitted in the case of sexual immorality.
To this permission for divorce, the Apostle Paul added the case of
abandonment by an unbelieving spouse (1st Cor. 7:15).

We note that incompatibility, not loving each other anymore, brutality, and
misery are not grounds for divorce, though they may be proper grounds for
a separation and consequent "celibacy within marriage" as Paul indicates
in 1 Corinthians 7:11. These words of Paul show us that a Christian couple
may in fact split up for reasons that do not justify a Biblical divorce. It may
be because of a misguided sense of spirituality; it may be because of
general unhappiness, or conflict, or abuse, or misery, addiction, or poverty.
Paul recognizes (without at all encouraging) that one might depart in such
circumstance, but they cannot consider themselves divorced, with the
right to remarry, because their marriage had not split up for reasons that
justify a Biblical divorce."

[Scott Alexander Carroll, booklet, Taken in Adultery: But Whose? A Believers Commentary on John 8:1-11]
Click to expand...

DennisTate · Nov 26, 2023

yabberefugee said: ↑

Luke was a Greek I believe.
Click to expand...

Yes.... and Orthodox Jewish scholar and historian traces groups from the Tribe of Dan to Greece......
I believe that the range of choices ahead of us humans is far, far, far, far, far, far greater than we tend to imagine.....
but Multiverse Theory as explained in the Marvel movies......
... does hint at how powerful the range of choices available to us humans actually is!!!!

Near death experiencer Howard Storm.... " 4. The Future of the U.S. and the World
Because of my fear of a nuclear holocaust I asked if there was going to be a nuclear war in the world, and they said no. That astonished me, and I gave them this extensive explanation of how I had lived under the threat of nuclear war. That was one of the reasons I was who I was. I figured, when I was in this life, that it was all sort of hopeless; the world was going to blow up anyway, and nothing made much sense. In that context I felt I could do what I wanted, since nothing mattered.
They said, “No, there isn’t going to be any nuclear war.”
I asked if they were absolutely sure there wasn’t going to be nuclear war. They reassured me again, and I asked them how they could be so sure.
Their response was: “God loves the world.” They told me that at the most, one or two nuclear weapons might go off accidentally, if they weren’t destroyed, but there wouldn’t be a nuclear war.
I then asked them how come there had been so many wars. They said that they allowed those few to happen, out of all the wars that humanity tried to start. Out of all the wars that humans tried to create, they allowed a few, to bring people to their senses and to stop them.
Science, technology, and other benefits, they told me, had been gifts bestowed on humanity by them – through inspiration. People had literally been led to those discoveries, many of which had later been perverted by humanity to use for its own destruction.
We could do too much damage to the planet. And by the planet, they meant all of God’s creation. Not just the people, but the animals, the trees, the birds, the insects, everything.
They explained to me that their concern was for all the people of the world. They weren’t interested in one group getting ahead of other groups. They want every person to consider every other person greater than their own flesh. They want everyone to love everyone else, completely; more, even, than they love themselves. If someone, someplace else in the world hurts, then we should hurt, we should feel their pain. And we should help them. Our planet has evolved to the point, for the first time in our history, that we have the power to do that. We are globally linked. And we could become one people." [Howard Storm, near-death .com]
Click to expand...

https://britam.org/dan2.html

Mr. Yair Davidiy .... "
Some Characteristics of Dan
Tribal Identifications: Dan part 2
Adapted from "Lost Israelite Identity" (1996)
by Yair Davidiy

A Few Notes on
THE TRIBE OF DAN

The Tribe of Dan when it came out of Egypt with the rest of the Children of Israel was, after Judah, the most populous of Israelite Tribes with 62,700 males between the ages of 20 and 60 apart from women, children, and the elderly (Numbers 2;26).

The son of Dan was called "Hushim" (Genesis 46;23) who gave rise to the Danite clan known as Shuhami (Numbers 26;43). Symbols associated with the Tribe of Dan include a lion, snake, eagle, dragon, and griffin. A griffin is an imaginary creature with the wings and body of an eagle and the head of a lion. The Hyksos rulers of Egypt used a griffin as their symbol. The Hyksos were either Hebrews or a Band of Egyptian rulers who relied on Israelites in their forces and were heavily influenced by Hebraic and Canaanite culture.

Aholiab of the Tribe of Dan assisted Betzaleel of the Tribe of Judah in building the Tabernacle in the Wilderness (Exodus 31;2 6).

Character appraisals of Dan in tradition appear contradictory. One source (Talmud, Shabat 67) says that all the children of Dan were idolaters. It also says that Dan received the north side "whence darkness comes". A Midrash states that Samson the legendary judge hero had a Danite father and a mother from Judah whereas the future Messiah will have a father from Judah and a mother from Dan or from Nephtali (Genesis Rabah 98;13)..

The mother of Dan was Bilhah who also bore Nephtali. Dan and Nephtali are often linked with each other. Bilhah was the maidservant of Rachel mother of Benjamin and Joseph, and here too parallelisms are noticeable.

Eldad HaDani (ca.800 c.e.) quotes an old legend according to which the Tribe of Dan left the Land of Israel after the Ten Tribes separated themselves from Judah. The Northern Ten Tribes under Jeroboam ben Nebat warred against Judah in the south and so Dan rather than engage in a fratricidal struggle went into voluntary exile.

SAMSON was from the Tribe of Dan. Samson was an heroic saviour of superhuman strength given to him at moments of Divine inspiration.. He became the prototype for Hercules. In Greek Classical Mythology Hercules appears to frequently represent peregrinations of migrating Phoenicians and Israelites.

At first the Tribe of Dan received an inheritance around the area of Joppa (modern Jaffa- Tel Aviv). Most of the inheritance of Dan in the south was to be lost to the Amorites and Philistines and later regained by the Israelite Tribes of Ephraim and Judah BUT NOT DAN.

"And the seventh lot came out for the tribe of the children of Dan according to their families.

"And the coast of their inheritance was Zorah, and Eshtaol, and Irshemesh,

"And Shaalabbin, and Ajalon, and Jethlah,

"And Elon, and Thimnathah, and Ekron,

"And Eltekeh, and Gibbethon, and Baalath,

"And Jehud, and BeneBerak, and Gath rimmon,

"And Mejarkon, and Rakkon, with the border before Japho.

"And the coast of the children of Dan went out [(too little)] for them: therefore the children of Dan went up to fight against Leshem, and took it, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and possessed it, and dwelt therein, and called Leshem, Dan, after the name of Dan their father.

"This is the inheritance of the tribe of the children of Dan according to their families, these cities with their families" (Joshua 19;404.

"And the Amorites forced the children of Dan into the mountain: for they would not suffer them to come down to the valley:

"But the Amorites would dwell in Mount Heres in Aijalon, and in Shaalbim: yet the hand of the house of Joseph prevailed, so that they became tributaries" (Judges 2;3435)..

We see from the above that the Tribe of Dan in the south was only successful in obtaining a portion of the inheritance it had been bequeathed when the Land was divided amongst the Tribes. We also saw that Dan was quite populous. Consequently many from the Tribe of Dan were to go elsewhere.

The Tribe of Dan was to launch forward and conquer an area in the Upper Galilee, another region in Cilicia (southeast Turkey), establish settlements in Anatolia, engage in an attempted invasion of Egypt, establish a base in Libya, conquer Greece, Cyprus, and Crete, and establish
a presence in Bronze Age Scandinavia, Britain, and Ireland.
Click to expand...

The Philosophical implications of Multiverse Theory?

http://www.politicalforum.com/index...iversal-models.400055/page-13#post-1065341007

AboveAlpha said: ↑

This is part of the MANY WORLDS THEORY.....but we have found that the Many Worlds Theory is too limited to account for Quantum Mechanics so we developed models of MULTIVERSAL THEORY which Many Worlds Theory is but a part of it.

In Multiversal Theory you have Many Worlds theory as a part of it but Many Worlds is but one Universal Baseline Reality Grouping with Infinite Numbers of Divergent Universal States of Reality that all have ONE SET of NATURAL PHYSICAL LAWS.

In Multiversal Theory we have our ONE set of Natural Physical Laws that govern the Infinite in Number Divergent Universal States of Reality where each one has a different version of you and I and everyone and everything else............but as well in Multiversal Theory there are also INFINITE IN NUMBER UNIVERSAL BASELINE REALITY GROUPINGS......where each Grouping has it's own completely different that our own Alternate Universal Natural Physical Laws.

Thus each BASELINE UNIVERSAL REALITY GROUPING.....which are INFINITE IN NUMBER.....each have within the INFINITE IN NUMBER DIVERGENT UNIVERSAL STATES OF REALITY.

So Infinite Groups of Infinite Versions.

AboveAlpha
Click to expand...

dairyair · Nov 26, 2023

Absolutely not.
Palestinians are from Philistines.

Not greeks.

DennisTate · Nov 26, 2023

dairyair said: ↑

Absolutely not.
Palestinians are from Philistines.

Not greeks.
Click to expand...

That is what I thought for a long time myself and then I read an article by a man named Haider....
that is a lot like the following.....
and I started thinking.......

Rumour has it that Rabbi Akiva stated that as soon as the Romans were kicked out..... then
afterward his followers must kick out the Messianic Jewish community........
his approach may not have been the wisest decision that he could have made...and.... it seems to have somewhat backfired.........
....
he might have been wiser to look into what all may have been meant by that question by Rabbi Yeshua.....

"And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace." [Mark 3:4}

https://www.jpost.com/magazine/features/the-lost-palestinian-jews

The lost Palestinian Jews
According to amateur historian Tsvi Misinai, many Jews and Palestinians share not only DNA, but also customs and even names.
By DAVID SHAMAH
AUGUST 20, 2009 12:37

"We are of the same race and blood, and cooperation will bring great prosperity to the land," wrote Emir Faisal to Felix Frankfurter in 1917. Faisal was known for his affinity to the Zionists who had begun streaming to the Holy Land; in 1919, he signed a cooperation agreement with Chaim Weizmann, to whom he wrote that he was "mindful of the racial kinship and ancient bonds existing between the Arabs and the Jewish people." But Faisal's proclamations of kinship with the Jews were more than lip service to a commonly held belief, says Tsvi Misinai, who knows perhaps more about the origins of the modern Palestinians than anyone. "Faisal's paternal line was Hashemite," he says, "meaning he was directly descended from Muhammad. But the mother of his maternal grandfather, King On, was descended from a family of forced Jewish converts to Islam that immigrated to the east bank of the Jordan, later returning to one of the villages west of the Jordan. Unlike today, when Faisal was growing up, his grandfather's mother's Jewish origin was known, and they made no great effort to hide it. And what was known to Faisal is known to many Palestinians today as well." This is a story of what may be one of the best-kept secrets in history - one that could, in time, heal the terrible rift that has torn the Land of Israel asunder. After years of research, Misinai says that he can declare with certainty that nearly 90 percent of all Palestinians are descended from the Jews. "And what's more, about half of them know it," he says. Not only that, many Palestinians retain Jewish customs, including mourning rituals, lighting Shabbat or memorial candles and even wearing tefillin. While the common wisdom among many Israelis is that the group that calls itself "Palestinian" is a motley collection of Arabs from various parts of the Middle East who immigrated to the Land of Israel following the employment opportunities provided by Jews, Misinai says that the vast majority of today's Palestinians are descended from the remnants of Jewish families who managed to avoid being deported over the past 2,000 years, or returned to their lands after they were exiled, as the Jews in the Holy Land suffered blow after blow - from the Roman destruction of the Temple to the Crusades to famine, poverty and war throughout the Middle Ages. One thing many were unable to avoid, however, was converting to Islam - a forced conversion that never really "took," done more out of fear than conviction. Misinai has made it his mission to spread the word among Palestinians, giving them the opportunity to retrieve their lost heritage. And not just introduce them to their roots; according to Misinai, the reintegration of what he calls the "descendants of Israel" with the Jewish people is the best - perhaps the only - way to solve the seemingly endless Middle East crisis. Despite what some may be thinking, Misinai is not a nut. In fact, he is a hi-tech entrepreneur, perhaps the first in Israel's history. While the kids from ICQ and Google were still in diapers, in the early 1980s Misinai was building Sapiens into a world-class application developer, focusing on the insurance industry. All those rule-based, object-oriented applications we use every day; it was Misinai who invented the concept, and the product, winning the Rothschild Award for industrial development in the field of software in 1992. Several years afterward, he retired from the hi-tech business to return to his first love - researching the history of the Land of Israel. "I became interested in this area because of my father, who was a great collector of artifacts about the Land of Israel," he says, a hobby he has continued. But besides objects, Misinai collected stories - legends and folklore from the mouths of mukhtars, village elders throughout the land, attesting to the truth of his assertions. "There are large clans throughout the country, in the Hebron Hills, in Samaria and among the Negev Beduin, who know of their heritage and even have family trees that document their roots. Not only that; many of them have specifically Jewish customs, and their neighbors would call them 'the Jews,' even though they were technically as Muslim as anyone else." Close to nine out of 10 Palestinians in the Land of Israel - Israel proper, Judea, Samaria and Gaza - have Jewish roots. In fact, he says, the percentage in Gaza is somewhat higher than 90 percent. Misinai is far from the first researcher to have stumbled upon this historical find. The first president of Israel, Yitzhak Ben-Zvi, and the first prime minister, David Ben-Gurion, wrote several books and articles on the subject. In fact, Ben-Gurion believed so strongly in the idea that in 1956 he set up a task force headed by Moshe Dayan and Haim Levkov (the Palmah's "point man" among the Arabs of Israel, he worked with Yigal Allon to set up the Trackers' Unit, traditionally the domain of Negev Beduin), that was supposed to develop ways to "Judaize" the Beduin, teaching them something about modern Jewish life and tradition to integrate them with the Israeli people, ethnically if not religiously. The Beduin were willing enough, but the teachers who were supposed to live and work with them dropped out of the program because of the rough living conditions. In the end, Dayan convinced Ben-Gurion that the idea would upset "the Islamic world," and the program was dropped. That's an important point, Misinai says. "I don't necessarily believe most, or even some, of the Palestinians would want to convert to Judaism, at least right now. Reintegrating them with the Jewish people does not necessarily require them to convert, and I imagine many of the rabbis would be reluctant to go ahead with such a program." Plus, he says, many Israelis of all stripes would be suspicious that the Palestinians were embracing their "Jewish identities" as a way of getting Israeli ID cards - to get National Insurance money, if not to carry out terror attacks. IN HIS book, Brother Shall Not Lift Sword Against Brother, which discusses what he calls "the Engagement," Misinai foresees a gradual process of education and integration that could take 40 to 50 years, with immigration and natural growth among the Jews keeping the demographic balance in check. "It sounds like a long time, but we often forget that it's been 40 years since the Six Day War and the only 'progress' that we've made has been the Oslo process, which has turned out to be a tragedy for Israel and the Palestinians," Misinai says. Besides, he says, many of the Palestinians might not have to convert anyway. "Many of the families in question know they are of Jewish origin, and they marry among themselves. Halachically there may be some questions, but I have consulted with rabbis who say they are resolvable. It would certainly be in line with historic Judaism, which in the past - during the Temple periods, for example - had more lax standards for accepting returnees. For example, Jews who were idol worshipers during the First and Second Temple periods were not forced to convert back in order to be considered part of the people of Israel."....
.....
.....
Click to expand...

The subtitles in this video are in English.....

Palestinians of Jewish Origin higher resolution

I also think that it is interesting that... in my opinion at the least... .somebody has risen up in Israel who is a teacher who can be compared with John the Baptist or even with Rabbi Yeshua in many ways..... the man is brilliant.... and his near death experience account is getting Jews, Christians and Muslims ... not to mention Atheists and Agnostics to rethink how they approach life.....

https://www.alonanava.com

I think that it is time for me to explain clearly and plainly what I meant here......
.....

http://www.politicalforum.com/index...om-in-the-middle-east.614114/#post-1074478859

DennisTate said: ↑

Perhaps I owe a Rosh ha Shanah type of apology to all nine point four million Israelis.....
I asked a question several years ago that has rather huge implications......

How can we stop the rockets from landing on Sderot, Israel?

... but I gave my own full answer to this question over in another seemingly unrelated discussion........

... forcing the most well informed readers to read and read and read and read and read some more of my ramblings!?

At 35,753 views....
my tactic did succeed?!

http://www.politicalforum.com/index...f-elijah-needed.499830/page-3#post-1067329856

So what I am thinking of is a legal drama starring ideally Alan Dershowitz.... as himself.... and he sues me...... DennisTate.......
......
for an infinite amount of debt based on the possibility that Noah was my great, great, great... grandson........ and I might perhaps be the idiot who in a way is responsible for ever drop of innocent blood shed on the earth in the past six millennia.... linear time anyway?????!!!

Then I donate the proceeds towards paying off the national debt of Israel.... and the USA... and Canada... and The Netherlands... and Australia... and New Zealand.... and that is just the opening gambit..... mid game and end game get quite interesting indeed!

My Rosh ha Shanah apology to you all

Actually... I was wrong... what is on my right side is actually a birthmark.... not merely a mole?????!!!!
Click to expand...

Rabbi Alon Anava's NDE itself reminds me of Matthew chapter four... and the simplicity of his teachings since his 2001 brush with death... remind me of the basic Judaism expressed in Matthew chapters five, six and seven........ The Sermon on the Mount.... In my opinion.... Ezekiel chapter thirty seven is coming to pass.. the stick of Joseph is being twisted together with the stick of Judah.....

DennisTate · Nov 26, 2023

Ezekiel chapte thirty seven.....

16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim and for all the house of Israel his companions:

17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.

18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?

19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.

20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.

21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.

23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.

24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.

25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.

......
......

And now to really challenge all of you.......
and offend many of you.....

https://britam.org/messiah.html

MOSHIACH BEN YOSEPH
by Yair Davidiy

The Two Messiahs
<<Our Sacred Sages had a tradition that in the beginning [of the End Times] there would arise a Messiah [i.e. Anointed Saviour] from the house of Joseph who will reign over the Ten Tribes. He will wage wars and all of Israel will be gathered together under his banner. [This will continue] until later on, a descendant of David will appear and he will reign over them....
<<A transformation will take place. The Ten Tribes and the stick of Joseph will draw themselves closer unto the stick of Judah, and this too, will be through the agency of a Prophet and by miracles>>.
The Commentary of "Malbim" on Ezekiel 37:15

The story of Joseph in the Bible is an historical account of what really did happen to Joseph, the ancestor of people in Britain and America, as well as other areas. The story of Joseph, in addition to being an historical account of what happened to a particular person named Joseph, is also symbolic of what will happen to his descendants. In Rabbinical tradition we have the concept of the “Mashiach ben Yoseph” (Messiah, son of Joseph), who will be a DESCENDANT OF JOSEPH. “Mashiach ben Yoseph” also represents the actions of the descendants of Joseph in the Last Days and the times leading up to these last days. In Jewish tradition there will be two Messiahs: “Mashiach ben Yoseph” (Messiah, son of Joseph), and “Mashiach ben David” (Messiah, son of David).

The Two Messiahs

The concept of the Messiah is derived from the definition of “Mashiach.” “Mashiach” means “anointed one” in Hebrew. A person could be anointed in order to be consecrated for a special purpose. For instance, in times of war a special priest was “anointed” to declare before the Israelite soldiers their God-ordained duty to fight bravely (Deuteronomy 19;2-4). The kings were ALSO anointed. The idea of an anointed savior, of a “Mashiah” i.e. Messiah, is contained in the Prophets. The “Messiah” was to be descended from King David. He was to be the “Messiah, son of David.” In addition to the MESSIAH SON OF DAVID, a tradition existed that there would also be a “Messiah, son of Joseph” who would come shortly before the “Messiah, son of David.” The MESSIAH, SON OF JOSEPH was to be a descendant of Joseph, from the Tribe of Ephraim. According to the Biblical Commentary known as the Malbim (1809-1879), the MESSIAH, SON OF JOSEPH, was to head the Lost Ten Tribes in the latter days in the period leading up to the return of the Lost Ten Tribes and their eventual re-unification with Judah. The full name of the MALBIM was Meir Leib ben Yechiel Michael [Weiser], but he is called “MALBIM” for short. He lived in 1809-1879 CE. The Malbim comments on Ezekiel 37:

....
....
.....

Since the founding of the State of Israel in 1948 the USA has often helped protect the State of Israel from destruction. The USA has not however really helped Israel expand her borders. On the contrary the USA has often forced Israel to give up territories it had liberated and to constrict her borders, but maybe that will change. Maybe the USA and Britain will help Israel expand her borders in the future as the MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH is supposed to do. Ingathers the Exiles “Kol HaTor” says [2.40] “His [i.e. Joseph’s] bow abode in strength” (Genesis 49;24). This should be an important principle for us. We have to stand obstinately strong in the holy work of gathering in the exiles which is the task of the first redeemer [i.e. of the MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH]. Purifies the Land of Israel “Kol HaTor” says [2.41] “And Joseph was governor over the land” (Genesis 42;6). This means he will overcome all the forces of impurity. This is one of the great tasks of the First Redeemer [of the MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH]: to extirpate the spirit of impurity from the country by means of settling the Holy Land. When the Holy Land is not settled [with Israelites] a spirit of impurity settles over it. [When the Holy Land is settled with Israelites the Land becomes pure]. Joshua ben Nun Was a Forerunner “Kol HaTor” says [2.44]

The First Redeemer [MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH] fights against Amalek with total warfare…[he fights against the forces of anti-Semitism]. This was the task of Joshua ben Nun who was [a forerunner and ancestor of] the Messiah Son of Joseph. Aroused by Elijah “Kol HaTor” says [2.71] “Behold I will send you my prophet Elijah…and he will return the hearts of the fathers to their sons” (Malachi 4). One of the tasks of Elijah is to arouse the spirit of the MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH. Comment:

[Malachi 4:5] BEHOLD, I WILL SEND YOU ELIJAH THE PROPHET BEFORE THE COMING OF THE GREAT AND DREADFUL DAY OF THE LORD: [Malachi 4:6] AND HE SHALL TURN THE HEART OF THE FATHERS TO THE CHILDREN, AND THE HEART OF THE CHILDREN TO THEIR FATHERS, LEST I COME AND SMITE THE EARTH WITH A CURSE.

We have noted elsewhere that one of the meanings of the verse in Malchi 4: of returning the hearts of the fathers to their sons, and the heart of the children to their fathers” is to make people aware of their Israelite Tribal Identity, to let people who are descended from the Lost Ten Tribes of Israel know who they are and who their tribal forefathers most likely were. This is what Brit-Am is doing. Help brit-Am. If you can help Brit-Am please do so. Causes Non-Israelite Nations to Repent “Kol HaTor” says [2.75] The Messiah Son of Joseph arouses not only Israel but also the Peoples of the World to Repent. Jonah the Prophet had the aspect of MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH in his generation. His task is, “to rebuke many nations” (Isaiah 2). Turns Defeat Into Victory “Kol HaTor” says [2.91] The characteristic of the MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH is that out of tribulation he brings salvation. The Heavenly Ladder “Kol HaTor” says [2.97] A ladder on the ground and its head reaching to heaven (Genesis 2. This is an aspect of Joseph as is known. What happened to Jacob happened to Joseph. All of his deeds were an arousal from below with an accompanying assistance from heaven. Joseph was the son of Jacob and Rachel and had the characteristics of both Jacob and Rachel. Ingathers Exiles, Rebuilds Jerusalem, Settles the Wilderness “Kol HaTor” says [2.117] The rulership of Joseph overcomes all impurity.

The task of the MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH is to remove the spirit of impurity from the Land through the ingathering of exiles, rebuilding Jerusalem, and the planting of the wilderness. Ransoming Captives “Kol HaTor” says [2.118] “And the ransomed of the LORD shall return and come to Zion” (Isaiah 35;10): The task of ransoming captives belongs to the MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH who performs it by ingathering the Exiles…The Major Ingathering of the Exiles cannot be less than 600,000…They will come with rejoicing and happiness. Comment: “Kol HaTor” says The Major Ingathering of Exiles cannot be less than 600,000. 600,000 was taken to be a key number. It is interesting to note that when Israel declared its Independence in 1948 the total Jewish population in the Land at that time was a bit more than 600,000 which was the key number mentioned by “Kol HaTor” about two hundred years beforehand. Reveals Secrets of the Torah “Kol HaTor” says [122] “And Pharoah called Joseph’s name Zaphenat Paneah” [i.e. Uncover of Secrets] (Genesis 41;45). One of the tasks of the MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH in each generation is to reveal the secrets of the Torah. Horns of a Unicorn “Kol HaTor” says [131] “His horns are the horns of a unicorn with which he strikes the peoples” (Deuteronomy 33). The main task of the MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH is the everlasting war against Amalek. Comment: The horns of a unicorn are linked with the MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH. A unicorn is part of the symbol of Britain. Two unicorns appear on the Coat of Arms of Scotland. Many descendants of Joseph from Scotland migrated to North America. The main task of the MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH is the everlasting war against Amalek. “Amalek” represents the forces of Anti-Semitism.

The fact is that Anti-Semites, as well as hating the Jews, are usually also the enemies of the British or the Americans. Even those people who hate Jews among the British and Americans are usually found after examination to hold doctrines and to do things that make them in effect the enemies of Britain and America.
The time has come for us all to understand that we are one people. Our enemies know this and so should we.
Dan Assists “Kol HaTor” says [150] The Prince of Dan will assist MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH. Comment: The prince of Dan represents the people of Dan. The descendants of Dan are to be found today mainly amongst the people of Denmark and amongst descendants of the Irish overseas. We Must Do Our Utmost “Kol HaTor” says [p.453] “We have to do our utmost for the sake of the union of the two Messiahs, MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH and MESSIAH SON OF DAVID, the stick of Joseph and the stick of Judah [that Ezekiel described as uniting]." [Orthodox Jewish scholar and historian Yair Davidiy]
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This may seem unrelated......
but we are facing a possible Bear Market.....

Can Israel pull the entire world economy out of a possible Bear Market, another 1929?

DennisTate said: ↑

I believe that the answer to that question is YES!!!!!!

And in my opinion a sincere attempt to set up the fulfillment of Ezekiel chapter forty seven is one promising possible way to pull this off.

A lot of people have very pessimistic ideas surrounding what all happens when Ezekiel chapter forty seven comes to pass...... but I am scratching my head over how anybody could read something negative in something so positive as whatever all is meant by Ezekiel chapter forty seven?????

In a way.. .the stage was set for this back in 2016:

Sanhedrin Asks Putin and Trump to Build Third Temple in Jerusalem

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The Christian Political Cyrus / The Audition and President Donald J. Trump.

wgabrie · Nov 26, 2023

Dennis, they sure didn't teach me in Bible study when I was a kid that the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and killed everyone there about 50 years after Jesus came. That was a big gap in knowledge to have when I left the 1st-century Christians in the hands of the Romans when I decided to move towards the past while I was playing with multi-verses and history with AboveAlpha.

DennisTate · Nov 26, 2023

wgabrie said: ↑

Dennis, they sure didn't teach me in Bible study when I was a kid that the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and killed everyone there about 50 years after Jesus came. That was a big gap in knowledge to have when I left the 1st-century Christians in the hands of the Romans when I decided to move towards the past while I was playing with multi-verses and history with AboveAlpha.
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No....
they sure did not tell us about the sheer horror of the events of that time period....

Doom of Capernaum Fall of Galilee in 67 AD (audio on youtube)

DennisTate said: ↑

This is so impressive that I wanted to make sure that I could find this again to listen again later on.

This reminds me of Mila 18 by Leon Uris that I read back in the late 1970's.

Doom of Capernaum Fall of Galilee in 67 AD

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Matthew 11:23
"You, Capernaum, who are exalted to heaven, you will go down to Hades. For if the mighty works had been done in Sodom which were done in you, it would have remained until this day."

There are consequences for ignoring the truth... when the truth is told to us......

Dirty Rotten Imbecile · Nov 28, 2023

dairyair said: ↑

Absolutely not.
Palestinians are from Philistines.

Not greeks.
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Palestinians are mainly Egyptians, Syrians and Jordanians who immigrated into the area in the last 100 years.

dairyair · Nov 28, 2023

Dirty Rotten Imbecile said: ↑

Palestinians are mainly Egyptians, Syrians and Jordanians who immigrated into the area in the last 100 years.
Click to expand...

The word Palestine derives from Philistia, the name given by Greek writers to the land of the Philistines, who in the 12th century bce occupied a small pocket of land on the southern coast, between modern Tel Aviv–Yafo and Gaza. The name was revived by the Romans in the 2nd century ce in “Syria Palaestina,” designating the southern portion of the province of Syria,

...
From 1900 to 1948
In the last years of the 19th century and the early years of the 20th, the Palestinian Arabs shared in a general Arab renaissance. Palestinians found opportunities in the service of the Ottoman Empire, and Palestinian deputies sat in the Ottoman parliaments of 1877, 1908, 1912, and 1914. Several Arabic newspapers appeared in the country before 1914. Their pages reveal that Arab nationalism and opposition to Zionism were strong among some sections of the intelligentsia even before World War I. The Arabs sought an end to Jewish immigration and to land purchases by Zionists. The number of Zionist colonies, however, mostly subsidized by the French philanthropist Edmond, baron de Rothschild, rose from 19 in 1900 to 47 in 1918, even though the majority of the Jews were town dwellers. The population of Palestine, predominantly agricultural, was about 690,000 in 1914 (535,000 Muslims; 70,000 Christians, most of whom were Arabs; and 85,000 Jews).

https://www.britannica.com/place/Palestine

...
I don't see anything related to your claim.

DennisTate · Nov 28, 2023

Dirty Rotten Imbecile said: ↑

Palestinians are mainly Egyptians, Syrians and Jordanians who immigrated into the area in the last 100 years.
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That is actually true but......
the genetic research that Tsvi Misinai and others have done does not lie.......

The Messianic Jewish community of the second century was NOT expelled from the Holy Land after the Bar Kochba Revolt was crushed.......

but... they were forced to become Muslim centuries later and yes.....
then they migrated to Egypt and other Islamic nations but......
they also felt a pull to return to their ancestral land once the Jews returned and got the economy of the Holy Land going again.

https://www.jpost.com/jerusalem-report/article-700904

Was Mark Twain's depiction of Israel in the 1800s accurate?
Was Mark Twain’s depiction of a desolate empty land inaccurate, an aberration? What did other travelers during this period write about their visits to the Holy Land?
By JACOB SIVAK
MARCH 10, 2022 15:54

.....

So was Mark Twain’s depiction of a desolate empty land inaccurate, an aberration? What did other travelers during this period write about their visits to the Holy Land?

In fact, several 18th- and 19th-century travelers to the Holy Land wrote about their experiences, and the resulting volumes are in the public domain and available on the Internet. (In at least one case, a facsimile of the book is available.)

Fredrik Hasselquist, a Swedish doctor and naturalist, visited the Levant (today’s Israel, Gaza, West Bank, Lebanon and Syria) in the 1750s. Hasselquist’s account, written in Swedish, describes the flora and fauna of the region, but also includes descriptions of the economy, the geography and the people. Hasselquist’s friend and fellow Swede, Carl Linnaeus, the prominent biologist and inventor of the taxonomic system still used to identify plant and animal life, translated the account into English. It was published in 1766 as Travels in the Levant in the Years 1749, 50, 51, 52.

Hasselquist writes that the Holy Land is “uncultivated and almost uninhabited.” The primary source of income to the Turkish administration are the fees charged to visitors; 4,000 European, Greek and Armenian visitors yearly, along with an equal number of Jews from “all quarters of the world.” He estimates the Jewish population of Jerusalem to be 20,000, surely a substantial proportion of its population, while the town of Tiberius is described as half inhabited by Arabs, and the other half by Jews, who pay taxes to the Arabs.

Journey of a Tour in the Levant, published in 1820 by William Turner, a British diplomat and writer, is a three-volume description of the Levant and surrounding countries. Volume II (653 pages) includes a journey to Mount Lebanon, Sidon, Tyre, Acre, Nazareth, the Sea of Galilee, through Samaria to Jerusalem and Jaffa.

Turner’s travelogue describes a sparsely inhabited land. He reports that there is a small Jewish community in the town of Acre; that Safed, a town of 1,000 houses, includes 300 to 350 that are Jewish; Tiberius, a town of 550 houses, includes about 100 that are Jewish; and some Jews are to be found in Samaria. He notes that a plague reduced the Jewish population of the Holy Land by 3,000. He also notes that Jews constitute about half of the population of Jerusalem. Like Hasselquist, Turner comments on the Jewish pilgrims coming from far and wide, and notes that during the previous year none came from Salonica because of a plague.

Felix Bovet, a Christian theologian and professor of French Literature and Hebrew, visited the Holy Land in 1858 and wrote a book describing it (Egypt, Palestine and Phoenicia: A Visit to Sacred Lands, translated into English in 1882). Bovet’s descriptions mirror those of Clemens – a dreary desolate landscape that is sparsely inhabited. He notes that close to half of the population of Jerusalem is Jews, and that a majority of the Jews in Jerusalem are indigenous, that is, Turkish subjects. He concludes the Palestine section of the book stating that the Turks “have made a desert of it where it is scarcely possible to walk without fear. Even the Arabs who dwell there do so as temporary sojourners.”

The late American economist Fred M. Gottheil published an article titled “The Population of Palestine, circa 1875” in 1979 in the journal Middle Eastern Studies. In it Gottheil refers to the writings and reports of 13 additional mid-19th century observers, including James Finn, the British consul for Palestine. All of them, he writes, report that Palestine is a desolate and underpopulated place.
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Dirty Rotten Imbecile · Nov 28, 2023

dairyair said: ↑

The word Palestine derives from Philistia, the name given by Greek writers to the land of the Philistines, who in the 12th century bce occupied a small pocket of land on the southern coast, between modern Tel Aviv–Yafo and Gaza. The name was revived by the Romans in the 2nd century ce in “Syria Palaestina,” designating the southern portion of the province of Syria,

...
From 1900 to 1948
In the last years of the 19th century and the early years of the 20th, the Palestinian Arabs shared in a general Arab renaissance. Palestinians found opportunities in the service of the Ottoman Empire, and Palestinian deputies sat in the Ottoman parliaments of 1877, 1908, 1912, and 1914. Several Arabic newspapers appeared in the country before 1914. Their pages reveal that Arab nationalism and opposition to Zionism were strong among some sections of the intelligentsia even before World War I. The Arabs sought an end to Jewish immigration and to land purchases by Zionists. The number of Zionist colonies, however, mostly subsidized by the French philanthropist Edmond, baron de Rothschild, rose from 19 in 1900 to 47 in 1918, even though the majority of the Jews were town dwellers. The population of Palestine, predominantly agricultural, was about 690,000 in 1914 (535,000 Muslims; 70,000 Christians, most of whom were Arabs; and 85,000 Jews).

https://www.britannica.com/place/Palestine

...
I don't see anything related to your claim.
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Yeah, you are right. I said that without looking it up and sure enough you are right. The Wikipedia article on immigration in Palestine clearly shows I am wrong too.

Apologies ladies and gentlemen.
Also, I heard that Palestine was named Palestine by the Romans after 70 CE because the fight that the Romans had to give to destroy the temple was frustrating so they named it Palestine to insult the Jews.
I have to check that statement out too.

DennisTate · Dec 3, 2023

Dirty Rotten Imbecile said: ↑

Yeah, you are right. I said that without looking it up and sure enough you are right. The Wikipedia article on immigration in Palestine clearly shows I am wrong too.

Apologies ladies and gentlemen.
Also, I heard that Palestine was named Palestine by the Romans after 70 CE because the fight that the Romans had to give to destroy the temple was frustrating so they named it Palestine to insult the Jews.
I have to check that statement out too.
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These are all good points......
these are all important pieces of the puzzle.....

but none of this negates the research that Mr. Tsvi Misinai is doing that indicates that a high percentage of the residents of the Palestine territories do have some sort of genetic link to the lost tribes of Israel......
.....
For example..... of King Solomon's seven hundred wives and three hundred concubines......

how many of them had many children........ or at least one child???????????

King Solomon did take wives from the surrounding nations.....
we know that because it is stated plainly in the Jewish Bible that those foreign wives led him into trouble......

You will find this interesting..... this is from Mr. Scott Carroll's wife

[Mrs. Scott Carroll] :

"A Dream about defending the text

A few years back,my husband had a dream that something was given to him, a box with Hebrew text. The text was a prayer illustrating a prayer uttered in the mid- 1800's by someone. The prayer was to God asking him to preserve the text and defend scripture.

In the dream, the box had a lamp of blue Glass but it broke when he touched it but the box with the ancient Hebrew writing on it remained. When he held the box, it electrified him. Now I TOO had a dream that same night in which I also held a lamp and when I touched it, I too was shocked. It also left a black soot on my hands. My lamp was not as beautiful though. It was just a simple brass lamp. I can't explain the soot or what the quality of my lamp meant or if it reflected my own study, or lack of! But in each dream, we both had a lamp.

Anyway, I believe that the Lord was saying that someone in real life, long ago really DID pray in 1800's for the Lord to raise up men to defend the biblical text (probably many texts, not necessarily just John 8:1-11) The lamp is the word but the light was going out. (It broke in the dream) The text still remains but needs defending due to omission, corrupted text etc (all this corruption of the text is explained on his site and it is all verifiable. I believe this reveals something in the spirit of what is happening now but of course there is always debate over it!

My understanding is that a real man, 150 yrs ago, prayed and the results are unfolding. The dream is attributed to many people. This does not make one person over the other "more important" because they had a dream. It just means God's word is important. That is all it is. God's will is to have his word preserved for others.

My husband's work is textual criticism but I also see him as a teacher and a scribe. A friend described it this way: Your husband disproved a very dangerous heresy which holds otherwise superior. There are Christian teachers captive to the belief that signs and wonders have ceased but it is a blatantly obvious, if you read the last section of Mark and the book of revelation that this is not so but they say this just because it is not in all the manuscripts- but he proved that the most reliable manuscripts are the ones which contain it. He did all the language, literary criticism, cross referencing of extra biblical historical sources, interrogation of the motives of people involved in editing the manuscripts etc."

Martin Collins said:

A "scribe" in the first century had an important position in the Jewish community. Almost five centuries earlier, Ezra the priest had been the archetypal scribe (Ezra 7:6), trained and skilled in the Law of Moses, which God had given Israel. He read the law before all who could hear with understanding on the Feast of Trumpets, helping the people to comprehend it (Nehemiah 8:2-8). In this, we see the function of a scribe—and similarly, the function of what we call a "minister" of God. A minister is a man who dedicates his life to studying God's written Word so he can expound and illustrate the Bible's laws, statutes, and principles to help people live God's abundant way of life.

The word translated instructed is from a Greek word meaning "to make a disciple" or "to become a pupil." Verse 52 could easily read, ". . . every scribe who has been trained for the Kingdom of God is like a master of a house." In this light, we see the scribe as a student who has been taught and is continuing to be taught. Not only is he a teacher, but he is also learning at the same time. He must continue to learn so that he can continue to teach." [Mrs. Scott Carroll]
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I am now going to take all of you to a modern writing.....
done in 1995... [I think]... that also miraculously shows
a meeting with a deceased saint and prolific Christian writer whose writings have
mentored many in the church over the centuries since the time in which they wrote......

Could the brilliant Christian writer of The Final Quest been Thomas Aquinas?

DennisTate said: ↑

Over the years I wondered over and over and over again who the brilliant writer could have been who felt disgusted with his own writings after he made it to the Outer Darkness of Heaven..... Once we have a near death experience..... and actually know how awesome our Heavenly Father and our Messiah and the Holy Spirit really are...... we realize that we missed so many opportunities to so much better while we were here on this earth....... HUMILITY is one of the biggest lessons that was taught to Pastor Rick during his amazing visionary dream......

My guess at this time is that the brilliant Christian writer who felt that his writings were shallow in comparison to what he could have done may have been Thomas Aquinas....... apparently Thomas Aquinas had a near death experience and made similar statements to the brilliant writer even before his death.....
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Rick Joyner... The Final Quest...... " Just when I felt that I was about to be sent to the deepest regions of hell, I simply cried "JESUS!" Quickly a peace came over me. I knew I had to move on toward the glory again, and somehow I had the confidence to do it. I kept moving until I saw a man who I considered one of the greatest writers of all time. I had considered his depth of insight into the truth to be possibly the greatest that I had encountered in all of my studies.

"Sir, I have always looked forward to this meeting," I almost blurted out.

"As have I," he replied with genuine sincerity.

"I feel that I know you, and in your writings I almost felt like you somehow knew me. I think that I owe more to you than to anyone else who was not canonized in Scripture," I continued.
"You are very gracious," he replied. "But I am sorry that I did not serve you better. I was a shallow person, and my writings were shallow, and filled with more worldly wisdom than divine truth."

"Since I have been here, and learned all that I have learned, I know that this must be true, but I still think they are some of the best that we have on earth," I answered.

"You are right," this famous writer admitted, with sincerity. "It is so sad. Everyone here, even those who sit closest to the King, would live their lives differently if they had them to live over, but I think that I would live mine even more differently than most. I was honored by kings, but failed the King of kings. I used the great gifts and insights that were given me to draw men more to myself and my wisdom than to Him. Besides, I only knew Him by the hearing of the ear, which is the way I compelled other men to know Him. I made them dependent on me, and others like me. I turned them more to deductive reasoning than to the Holy Spirit, Who I hardly knew. I did not point men to Jesus, but to myself and others like me who pretended to know Him. When I beheld Him here, I wanted to ground my writings into powder, just as Moses did to the golden calf. My mind was my idol, and I wanted everyone to worship my mind with me. Your esteem for me does not cause me to rejoice. If I had spent as much time seeking to know Him as I did seeking to know about Him in order to impress others with my knowledge, many of those who are in this lowest of companies would be sitting in the throne that was prepared for them, and many others would be in this room."

"I know by being here that your appraisal of your work is true, but are you not being a little to hard on yourself?" I questioned. "Your works fed me spiritually for many years, as I know they have multitudes of others."

"I am not being too hard on myself. All that I have said is true as it was confirmed when I stood before the throne. I produced a lot, but I was given more talents than almost anyone here, and I buried them beneath my own spiritual pride and ambitions. Just as Adam could have carried the whole human race into a most glorious future, but by his failure led billions of souls into the worst of tragedies, with authority comes responsibility. The more authority you are given, the more potential for both good and evil you will have. Those who will rule with Him for the ages will know responsibility of the most profound kind. No man stands alone, and every human failure, or victory, resonates far beyond our comprehension, even to generations to come. The many thousands who I could have led properly would have resulted in many more millions here. Anyone who understands the true nature of authority would never seek it, but only accept it when they know they are yoked with the Lord, the only One who can carry authority without stumbling. Never seek influence for yourself, but only seek the Lord and be willing to take His yoke. My influence did not feed your heart, but rather your pride in knowledge."

"How can I know that I am not doing the same?" I asked as I began to think of my own writings.

"Study to show yourself approved unto God, not men," he replied as he walked back into the ranks. Before he disappeared he turned and with the slightest smile, offered one last bit of advice: "And do not follow me."

In this first multitude I saw many other men and women of God from both my own time and history. I stopped and talked to many more. I was continually shocked that so many who expected to be in the highest positions were in the lowest rank of the kingdom. Many shared the same basic story-they all had fallen to the deadly sin of pride after their great victories, or fallen to jealousy when other men were anointed as much as they were. Others had fallen to lust, discouragement, or bitterness near the end of their lives and had to be taken before they crossed the line into perdition. They all gave me the same warning: the higher the spiritual authority that you walk in, the further you can fall if you depart from love and humility.
As I continued toward the judgment seat I began to pass those who were of higher rank in the kingdom. After many more veils had been stripped away from me by meetings with those who had stumbled over the same problems that I had, I began to meet those who had overcome. I met couples who had served the Lord and each other faithfully to the end. Their glory here was unspeakable, and their victory encouraged me that it was possible to stay on the path of life, and serve Him in faithfulness. Those who stumbled, stumbled in many different ways. Those who prevailed all did it the same way-they did not deviate from their devotion to the first and greatest commandment-loving the Lord. By this their service was done unto Him, not men, not even for spiritual men. These were the ones who worshipped the Lamb, and followed Him wherever He went.

When I was still not even half way to the throne, what had been the indescribable glory of the first rank now seemed to be the outer darkness in comparison to the glory of those I was now passing. The greatest beauty on earth would not qualify to be found anywhere in heaven. And I was told that this room was just the threshold of realms indescribable!" (Rick Joyner, The Final Quest).
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kazenatsu · Dec 3, 2023

More than 70% of Jewish men and half of the Arab men whose DNA was studied inherited their Y chromosomes from the same paternal ancestors.
But that's not surprising, since Muslim Arabs recognize that they descend from Abraham through Ishmael, rather than Isaac like the Jews.

The fact that Jews currently in Israel are closer genetically to Palestinians than to Europe is also not surprising, given that they are both considered to be within the group of Semitic peoples.
" The closest genetic relatives of the Middle Eastern Jews are Druze, Bedouin and Palestinians. The closest genetic relatives of the European group of Jews are Northern Italians, followed by Sardinians and French."

DennisTate · Dec 9, 2023

kazenatsu said: ↑

More than 70% of Jewish men and half of the Arab men whose DNA was studied inherited their Y chromosomes from the same paternal ancestors.
But that's not surprising, since Muslim Arabs recognize that they descend from Abraham through Ishmael, rather than Isaac like the Jews.

The fact that Jews currently in Israel are closer genetically to Palestinians than to Europe is also not surprising, given that they are both considered to be within the group of Semitic peoples.
" The closest genetic relatives of the Middle Eastern Jews are Druze, Bedouin and Palestinians. The closest genetic relatives of the European group of Jews are Northern Italians, followed by Sardinians and French."
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Yes...
very true......

This question is rather complex...
and here is another very different approach to all of this.

https://www.oneforisrael.org/bible-...OZMy3zQkbuUR8EMtg0jY8oV67qr3CS6vvMl5cczVcgHBY

ISRAEL, NEWS, VIDEOS & ARTICLES

JESUS A PALESTINIAN?!

Palestinian activist, Linda Sarsour, might have made big waves by saying that Jesus was a Palestinian, but the claim isn’t new.

The assertion is made as a way of trying to separate Jesus from the people of Israel and his Jewish identity. It tries to recast Jesus as a political freedom fighter who would stand against the nation of Israel, rather than the Messiah of Israel who came to take away the sin of the world.

Linda Sarsour even took a quote from the biblical book of Revelation (1:14-15) about John’s vision of Jesus and said it came from the Qu’ran! She was mistaken on many levels. It’s obvious that Jesus was a Middle Eastern man rather than a white caucasian, but there’s no getting away from the fact that he was a Jew, living in Judea, who said he was called first and foremost to the people of Israel. Even Benjamin Netanyahu’s son took issue with the controversial tweet, telling Sarsour that Jesus had “King of the Jews” written over his head on the cross.

JEWISH JESUS AND HIS ISRAELI IDENTITY
Jesus was not just any Jew – he was (and is) the King of the Jews! He is the Lion of the tribe of Judah. He was circumcised on the eighth day and called the Jewish temple in Jerusalem “my Father’s house”.He taught, kept and respected the law of Moses. He celebrated Passover and other Jewish feasts, and when asked what the most important commandment in the Scriptures was, he recited the Shema:

“Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.” (Mark 12:29-30)

When he spotted Nathaniel sitting under a fig tree (symbolic of Israel) Jesus says to him, “Here truly is an Israelite in whom there is no deceit.” Nathanael replies, “Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you are the king of Israel.”
In Acts, Peter addresses the crowd at Pentecost as “fellow Israelites”, or “people of Israel”, as does Paul.

From [King David’s] descendants God has brought to Israel the Savior Jesus, as he promised. Before the coming of Jesus, John preached repentance and baptism to all the people of Israel. (Acts 13:23)

Jesus said he was called the lost sheep of Israel (Matt 15:24), and referred to the land as either Judea or Israel (eg. Matt 8:10, 10:23). He prayed to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, he taught in synagogues, and said he was only coming back when the Jewish people were living in Jerusalem, ready to welcome him in the name of God (Matt 23:37-39).
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Although this article makes good points....
this does not rule out the fact that the Messianic Jewish community of 132 to 135 C. E. DID NOT JOIN IN THE BAR KOCHBA Revolt... and thus WERE NOT Expelled from the Roman Province of Judaea when that rebellion was crushed...........

Nor does this negate the fact that the great, great, great, great grandchildren of Messianic Jews and Christians all over the Middle East were forced to become Muslims.... .or die.......

FreshAir · Dec 9, 2023

Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were not even their real names, those were just to make them sound more English

DennisTate · Dec 9, 2023

FreshAir said: ↑

Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were not even their real names, those were just to make them sound more English
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True..... so how about Matias... Marcus..... Lucas...and Yohannan????

But of course I mean all 120 who were there for the Day of Pentecost in Acts chapter two.....

as well as a high percentage of the 3000 and then the 5000 who became the core of the Messianic Jewish movement of the time of the First Century church.

DennisTate · Dec 16, 2023

Injeun said: ↑

I don't know. It is my understanding that the numbers of Jews and Palestinians who have always inhabited that land is very small. And that the vast majority of todays so called Palestinians are the offspring of people from all over the middle east, who came to the area as migrant workers at the turn of the last century, and stayed. They (the great majority) aren't and never have been indigenous. As a causal observer from the other side of the earth, it seems to me to be a hellish situation to be born into, with all the animosity and the combative, dominating nature of Islam.
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One thing that I do know for certain.....
is that BigMedia is setting up all nine point four million Israelis.......

and all Palestinians.....

to play out the role of SACRIFICIAL PAWNS.....
in their larger plans.........

so by going against BigMedia......

it could be amazing how much positive progress could be made rather quickly.....

....
at least in theory??????!!!!!

In my opinion......
Mr. Robert Mendelson could be termed "a TRUE ISLAMIC THEOLOGIAN".....
IN MY OPINION....HE QUOTES THE KORAN FAR MORE ACCURATELY......

THAN THE FAMOUS SUPPOSED ISLAMIC THEOLOGIANS......
who are very likely really ACTORS PLAYING THE ROLE OF MUSLIMS......

but a True Islamic theologian will look at these Sura's very seriously........

and I believe will tend to realize that that there is something terribly OFF in what
BigMedia is putting out regarding the Israeli - Palestinian Conflict!!!!

"God's Peace Plan for the Holy Land, Hebrew and Arabic."

God's Peace Plan

for the Holy Land

A Peace Plan for Israel/Palestine

conforming to guidelines from the Bible and Qur’an
presented by

Robert Leon Mendelson

Copyright December 2010.

......
Preface

“God’s Peace for the Holy Land*”? Isn’t that a presumptuous title? Please allow

me to explain. First, since the sacred books of Judaism, Christianity and Islam

provide the guidelines supporting this solution, and since I wasn’t the one who

wrote them, calling them “God’s” seems fair. That’s why the words “presented by”

precede my name on the title page. Second, this book in no way proselytizes or

puts one religion above another. Nor does it openly or subtly encourage anyone to

convert to anything. What it does is take into account something without which

attaining peace in the Holy Land (Israel/Palestine) will forever be unattainable.

That “something” is the sacred messages delivered to each of the peoples involved

in the dispute. In this case, referencing the sacred books is more than some dry,

scholarly exercise or even a gesture of courtesy. Without taking the sacred books

into account, peace in the Holy Land will be near, if not completely, impossible.

What it boils down to is this: there are two groups of people, Palestinians and

Ashkenazi Jews (a.k.a. “Khazars”/“Eastern European Jews”) living in the Holy Land

and who appear to be genetically unrelated. In general, the belief systems

(religions) of both groups seem to direct them to subjugate and/or expel the other

group based on their being alien interlopers. Since millions of participants believe

this, and because their beliefs lead to acts of violence, finding a solution that

permits peace requires referencing their sacred literature.

Some may say the conflict has nothing to do with religion, but if this were so,

Jews wouldn’t claim “God gave us this land”. There’d be no point in doing so if it

had no importance to people. And Iran, a Persian nation, would have little interest

in a conflict concerning Semitic peoples several hundred miles away. It’s the

religious connection that brings Muslims of diverse backgrounds together in

support of Palestinians. Nor would millions of American Christians support Israel

without that support based on how they’re taught to read their Bibles." (Robert Mendelson)

....
If it were not for Robert's book I would never have guessed that these verses were in the Koran:

Next, we come to Islam and most Palestinians.

Sura 29:46;
Dispute not…with people of the Book;

And say ye, "We believe in what hath been sent down to us [Qur’an]

and what hath been sent down to you. [Old & New Testaments]

Our God and your God is one,..."
Sura 2:136;
Say ye: "We believe in God,

and that which hath been sent down to us [Qur’an],

and that which hath been sent down to Abraham

and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the tribes [Joshua],

and in that was given to Moses, and to Jesus,

and that which was given to the prophets, from their Lord.

No difference do we make between any of them."
There are many other instances in which Muhammad told his people that

the books of the Bible were confirmed. Again, one can argue theology, but

Muslims have a choice as to whether they wish to read the Qur’an for life or

for death. Making use of the Old Testament for a solution meant for the

members of both tribes currently in the Holy Land in no way places Muslims

in other lands under any constraints in their own land. The following passage

is quite specific regarding the value of the Old Testament—properly applied;

Sura 46:12;
But before the Koran was the Book of Moses, a rule and a mercy;

and this Book confirmeth it (the Pentateuch)—in the Arabic tongue—

that those who are guilty of that wrong may be warned,

and as glad tidings to the doers of good."
“glad tidings” to “doers of good”. Muslims are supposed to be “doers of good”.

Using Old Testament Law for the descendents of those it was originally given to

in the same land in which it was originally received doesn’t violate shariah in the

least. Muhammad recited a verse including a reference to David (from the Bible)

Sura 6:85;
And we gave him Isaac and Jacob, and guided both aright;

and We had guided…among the descendants of Abraham, David …”
David said something pertinent to the situation:

Psalm 19:9-11, David;
9…The ordinances of the LORD are sure and altogether righteous.

10 They are more precious than gold, than much pure gold;

they are sweeter than honey, than honey from the comb.

11 By them is your servant warned;

in keeping them there is great reward.”
And last, an Old Testament prophecy of particular interest for Muslims

throughout the Middle East from Isaiah…

Isaiah 19:25;
The LORD Almighty will bless them, saying,

"Blessed be Egypt my people, Assyria [Iraq] my handiwork,

and Israel my inheritance."

There is value for all people to make use of this wonderful tool for peace.

Without it, well, the next two passages sum up what Muslims will do.

The first passage explains how the situation in the Holy Land is seen by

Muslims worldwide and how it effects their relations with America.

Sura 60:7-9;
7 God will, perhaps, establish good will between yourselves

and those of them whom ye take to be your enemies:

God is powerful: and God is gracious, merciful.

8 God doth not forbid you to deal with kindness and fairness

towards those who have not made war upon you on account of your religion,

or driven you forth from your homes:

for God loveth those who act with fairness.

9 Only doth God forbid you to make friends of those who,

on account of your religion,

have warred against you,

and have driven you forth from your homes,

and have aided [America & the West] those [Israel] whom drove you forth:

and whoever maketh friends of them are wrongdoers."
Palestinians weren’t allowed to return to their homes after the war in 1948.

Then, after the 1967 war, more Palestinians were displaced. The majority of

Palestinians are Muslims, and whether rightly or wrongly, injustices committed

by Israel against Palestinians are perceived as injustices against Muslims as a

religion. According to this belief, verse 9 forbids all Muslims from making peace

with either Israel or anyone who supports Israel until this issue is resolved.

To understand what this next one is saying, understand that when Jews follow

the Torah and Old Testament, they’re included as “faithful”, too.

Sura 49:9-10;
9 If two bodies of the faithful are at war,

then make ye peace between them;

and if one of them wrong the other,

fight against that party which doth the wrong,

until they come back to the precepts of God;

if they come back, make peace between them with fairness,

and act impartially; God loveth those who act with impartiality.

10 Only the faithful [those who obey God's statutes] are brethren;

wherefore make peace between your brethren;

and fear God, that ye may obtain mercy."
The command to Muslims is for un-ending war until all parties abide by the

“precepts of God”. For Israelites, the precepts for sharing the land were placed

in the Old Testament. There was no need for covenants regarding land sharing

in the Holy Land to be duplicated in the Qur’an. Nor does referencing them in

any way make a Muslim disobedient to God. On the contrary—it enables them

to receive God’s mercy." (Robert Mendelson)
Click to expand...

IN MY OPINION... IF PRIME MINISTER BENJAMIN NETANYAHU REALLY WANTED TO
BEING TO BRING SHALOM TO THE ENTIRE MIDDLE EAST.......
THEN THE NEXT TIME THAT HE VISISTS THE USA OR CANADA.... HE SHOULD CONSIDER AVOIDING SPEAKING WITH
THE COLD BLOODED REPTILES IN THE WASHINGTON OR OTTAWA SWAMPS.... AND INSTEAD SHOULD SPEAK
WITH A NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCE AND A PROPHET WHO LIVES IN DELAWARE..........

.... ROBERT MENDELSON WRITES AND SPEAKS LIKE SOMEBODY WHO HAS MUTIPLE DOCTORAL DEGREES....
BUT HE AND I LOOK AT THE WORLD VERY VERY DIFFERENTLY......
AND WHEN WE TALK ON THE PHONE WE TEND TO MAKE EACH OTHER RATHER ANGRY.......
....
largely because Mr. Robert Mendelson is very far left politically and I was given my intellectual foundation by
somebody who met with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu decades before he got into politics......
Messianic Jewish theologian Garner Ted Armstrong........

who got me obsessed with hidden meaning in every word in the Law and in the Prophets!!!!!

"The Tate Plan for Shalom in the Middle East! "

http://www.politicalforum.com/index...the-middle-east.614114/page-2#post-1074567762

DennisTate · Dec 30, 2023

A discussion is beginning related to this topic.......
so far mostly it is on LinkedIn ..... but to a degree it is also on Facebook......

https://www.facebook.com/GinoDiCaprio

Gino DeCaprio ....

(He/Him) • 1st(He/Him) • 1st Nano-Influencer | Solopreneur | Self-Improvement Ideas | Jewish Prospective | Nano-Influencer | Solopreneur | Self-Improvement Ideas | Jewish Prospective |
4d •

4d •

Hello, and welcome to this article of History Matters, where we explore the fascinating facts and stories of the past. Today, we are going to talk about a book from 1714 that provides proof that Palestine was never Arab. This book is called “HADRIANI RELANDI PALAESTINA, EX MONUMENTIS VETERIBUS ILLUSTRATA, which means Palestine Illustrated by Ancient Monuments, and it was written by a Dutch orientalist named Adrian Reland (in English).

Reland was a scholar who spoke Hebrew, Arabic, and Ancient Greek perfectly, as well as several European languages. He visited Palestine in 1695, when it was under Ottoman rule, and he conducted thorough research on the land and its people. He did three things that no one had done before:

- First, he mapped the Land of Israel with great accuracy, using ancient sources and his own observations.

- Second, he identified each of the places mentioned in the Jewish sources, such as the Bible, the Mishnah, and the Talmud, with their original names and locations. He also compared them with the names and locations given by Roman and Greek sources.

- Third, he conducted a demographic survey and a census of each community living in Palestine. He recorded their religion, language, culture, and occupation.

What did Reland discover from his research? He discovered that Palestine had no Arab heritage or nation. The book completely contradicts any modern theory that claims a Palestinian legacy or a Palestinian nation. The book confirms the bond, relevance, and kinship of the Land of Israel with the Jews and the complete lack of belonging to the Arabs, who stole the Palestinian name from the Latin term for Philistines.

Reland found out that:

- No settlement in Palestine had a name of Arab origin. Most names came from Hebrew, Greek, Latin, or Roman languages. Even today, most names have no Arabic meaning or history. For example, Ramallah was originally called Beit El (House of G-d), Hebron was called Hevron (Friend), and Jerusalem was called Yerushalayim (City of Peace).

- Most of the land was empty and desolate, and the few inhabitants were mostly Jews and some Christians. There were very few Muslims, mostly Bedouin nomads, who came to work as seasonal laborers. For example, in Gaza, there were about 500 people, 55% of whom were Jews who worked in agriculture, and the rest were mainly Christians who worked in trade and transportation.

- There was no Palestinian culture or identity. The people living in Palestine had different religions, languages, cultures, and occupations. They did not share any common history or heritage with the Arabs or the Philistines.

Click to expand...

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Are Matthew, Mark, Luke and John's grandchildren: Palestinians?????

Could the Palestinians be largely the grandchildren of the first century Messianic Jewish community?

No

Yes

Wow.... I guess it is difficult to argue with modern genetic research!!!???

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