Athiests do not accept miracles

I am a former atheist myself, but there is nothing in atheism that drives someone to deliberately and maliciously twist someone else's faith into a weapon as Panzer does.

That is not atheism. Atheism is just an excuse for what really ailes him. And given the amount of time that some of the hardened atheists spend denying God? Well, lets just say its something of a fruedian slip only its more of a fruedian focus.

 

I was thinking about death and how interesting it is that there is so much suffering surrounding it.
I wondered if I was the one who designed life, what purpose would pain serve in the process of death? To truly appreciate life?
A horrific experience to contemplate.....
Our bodies begin to fail until something takes over and begins to devour us from within. A failing mind where we become lost within it, falling deep into dementia.
Again, a little to late in the process of knowledge..... Somewhat of a cruel joke.... Who would allow something like this happen?
How does our own intellect choose to respond? In our symptomatic nature of approach, the answer is quite simple......
Here, take this pill... You won't have to suffer nearly as much; the denial of form will seem less real.
In a world where we refuse to stand up and take responsibility for anything; it's simply just another aspect of projection.

If I had designed life, I would fill the world with minds... each one being a great composer of it's own...... It would not be me who has designed a life to suffer, I would offer the mind the ability to decide it no longer needs to suffer; even within the nature of death by offering it the power to peacefully let go.

The magnificent gift of becoming a composer of intricate fractals.... patterns within the mind.... Lush gardens, magnificent architecture, infinite possibility... Every step a work of art.... The sheer beauty cleanses the body and mind, washing away all pain.
A frail body strengthened in a pure fluidity of motion and the nurturing expression of the mind. The mind becoming so full it only has one thing left to experience, quietly and peacefully letting go into that frailty.

We manage our population now, no thought to the land and it's use.... How do we produce the greatest mass of food with the least amount of cost; the question is to ask what is the cost to the expression of our form? We refer to paper money in this cost, tokens; not the cost of land, water or the potential in it's biomass.
The answer of course is in the production of grain to feed the masses as if we are cattle, fattened up with refined sugars and preservatives.... prepared for the slaughter.
We are far too intelligent for such an existence... Utilizing nature to produce a mindful aspect of nurturing the body, we are not bringing the cultivator of water into the earth but watching it retreat into it's body of origin.... A crackerjack box house with a green lawn, this is how we represent the expressive potential of the mind?
An expression, planted to retain and utilize every drop of water, the transpiration of plant fills the air with moisture creating an environment that begins to support it's own expansion, mirroring the very infinite capacity of the mind.... A lush garden of the mind, ensuring that it will never wither away. The care and expression, the purity of vegetal mass that enters the body, providing the strength and foundation of it's form.

That is a brilliance I would certainly want to know, whatever form it might take.... Even if it was only within my own mind. How could I begin to imagine that it was only by chance, stumbling upon such a contemplative brilliance. What a truly magnificent gift being the composer of the mind, if it all turns out to be a lie; can I then make it as grand and colorful as I want it to be, an embellishment of infinite proportion?

Denying the expression of body and mind for so many generations that the very form has become genetically predisposed?.... Ouch, something isn't right!..... It makes you consider the Bible where it says we are all born into the body of sin, something we have inherited for the choices made by Adam.
"But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away."
Unfortunately the answer within such an expression does not exist within the mind itself, but within the acceptance of a savior to where our body and mind has come to exist; an exacting measure by which we are incapable without such acceptance... An acceptance of something that is by such measure, exterior from the self.... Project it all away?
A message, an inspiration riddled with an aspect of control through an establishment that has placed itself as the moral truth. To contradict such a belief elicits a fear of the power that has placed it there. The epicenter of the ego, a declared and implied knowledge that perpetuates the disease of the mind. Take this pill, the body of Christ...... The guilt associated with it's denial will no longer belong to you; the pain no longer real....
One might consider the seemingly contradictory brilliance within evolution, the perfecting of the physical form over millions of years, and how it might impact how quickly we could now repair and balance it.... Strengthening the body, now through the expression of the mind

 

For these types they have nothing but anger and hatred in their hearts. Agreed that has nothing at all to do with Atheism. These are seriously miserable individuals. They don't understand what we have so they must spit venom wherever they see light shining from people...

 

Agh yeah, they can.

http://christiancadre.blogspot.com/2009/05/scientifically-documented-miracles.html

Now, that is the second time in this thread alone I have produced that source, and for the second time in a row .... we'll be treated with excuses, if we can even get the atheists to acknowledge that.

And in the modern wonderful world of the internet, the number of documented miracles is ... overwhleming. At some point the excuses fall flat, its like the boy who cried wolf, or McCarthy screaming COMMUNIST!

Scinece can indeed document things, even if it cannot explain the cause of everything ... like the Big Bang.

And yet, there they are ... miracles, and here, just as Dat predicted, are atheists avoiding them. Funny how that works?

 

Fortunately, as you and I know, God has patience even for the worst of us

 

Yes, and then I am sure you had some sort of "experience" which changed your view of the world, which was incredibly similar to millions of other experiences people have had throughout history. Unfortunately, those people have had thousands of different, often times contradictory, truths revealed to them!! However, as human beings we naturally trust our sense, even when they are fooling us, and we are naturally narcissistic(it is a useful survival tool), so we like that idea that "truth" has been reveled to us personally!! That we are so special that we were chosen to know the "truth." If I am wrong, then I apologize, but this post is generally applicable, even if not personally applicable to you(though I imagine it is).

 

We are the miracle, we simply have yet to realize it!

 

Well, I glad, but that doesn't addres documented miracles in the slightest. So, thanks for .... that.

http://christiancadre.blogspot.com/2009/05/scientifically-documented-miracles.html

THree times!!!

Oh this is fun!!

 

You are your own Prophet, gotcha!

But then why would I want to worship you, if little ol' me is the Prophet?

Self worship has a price brother.

 

That is why there are billions under the Abrahamic faith alone ... Seems clearly to be ripping itself apart ...

And brother, to be lectured about narcassism by an atheist is .... ironic. Please apply your standard to your position, which is currently denying scientifically documented miracles.

They are there.

And as I have said time and again, science leads to agnosticism. We cannot definitively prove they are from God. No worries, we have faith and we know by other means.

Yet there they are and you ... deny them. Call others who acvknowledge them narcassistic? Prone to delusion?

And yet, there are those documented miracles ... avoided yet again, exactly as predicted.

http://christiancadre.blogspot.com/2009/05/scientifically-documented-miracles.html

Four times!!!

 

I already explained the error in your logic, and yet you just repost the same link which proves miracles in the same way websites advertising the amazing healing benefits of crystals prove crystals have healing benefits!! That website ascribes supernatural explanations to events, that need no supernatural explanation!!

PS. Beyond that, it makes the frankly heretical claim that not only God is capable of miracles, but some random woman is capable of magic!! It is idiotic nonsense. I already offered alternate explanations IN MY PREVIOUS POST!! The most obvious being misdiagnoses AND NATURAL sources of healing.

PPS. How many people have visited that woman and not gotten better? I imagine many more than the number that have. Again, all you have is a sample size problem. If thousands of people visit a "healer" it is a simple fact of probability that some WILL get better!! To say that is because of the woman, is entirely illogical!!

PPPS. I hope I don't need to address that nonsense again, because I have now offered legitimate rebuttal of it on 2 occasions!!

 

The same amount of things go wrong than right. That is like calling it a miracle every time you win a coin toss.

 

Obviously you are unfamiliar with the placebo effect and the fact that our entire body is responsible for producing the chemicals that are independently able to cure as well as destroy it.

Belief has a profound effect on the body completely separate from faith... A mind believing it has been given a pill that will cure them, can independently change the chemical processes of the body in order for it to correct itself.

If our minds were nurtured every day, do you think we would see the numerous mental disorders perpetuated within offspring?
If our bodies were nurtured in a pure fluidity of motion without being abused by mundane and absurd motions present in our daily lives of work, do you think we would see the numerous physical disorders perpetuated within offspring?

Why would God perform miracles for disorders that don't actually need to exist in the body and mind?

 

You might believe we need miracles, I see an existence where every life and every mind is it's own miracle.

 

I am not cognizant of your Faith or beliefs .

why are you still here ?

I feel much the same way , it's a waste of time .

well , I know that my doctors & nurses saved my Life , and I have confidence in them , and our modern medecine & treatment ,,, but , if it's all the same to you , I'll put my Faith in God , and thank Him for his mercy and healing power provided through my doctors & nurses & our modern medecine ..

I sent the doctors & nurses a great big fruit basket and a boquet of flowers .

but my prayers are and always will be sent to God ..

my friend , we have an accord , I also have experienced the power of God in my own Life . God is as real to me as the very air I breathe , as real as the rain and sunshine . thank you for standing up for God .

 

ADD ADHD....... How many more letters of diagnosis will we apply before we begin to realize that this is simply a reflection of our mundane lives and static minds?

What chemical processes in life are genetically passed to offspring in the continued denial of form?

We are much to brilliant to live as hamsters in this absurd wheel where we are rewarded with a progressively larger box and shiny trinkets based upon how long and hard we run, or how well we can effectively coerce another to do it for us.

The sad part is..... Evolution exists.... We are simply just moving in the wrong direction within it!

 

I agree , and well said , my friend , well said .

 

Agh no, you gave a flat out excuse to avoid it.

The fact that you beat the drum beat of dogma does not mean you cannot use science to document something.

The thesis of teh OP is that atheists will not acknowledge miracles, even those that are fully documented.

There is no probability that indicates that some people will just magically heal from terminal cancer. That is not statistics or anything else that is scientific. Its just an excuse to avoid something.

But go ahead and show me the medical science that supports some people just magically being cured of cancer or other terminal illness?

Your offer of a rebuttal has now been twice rebutted with actual science, and, a reminder, debate does not rest merely on the fact that you disagree. When you offer a weak case, one based in nothing but your opinion, and call it science? Its still not science.

 

Obviously, everyone but mighty atheists is unfamiliar with the placebo effect.

Because when you don't take anything and all the of the sudden you are magically healed of a terminal illness - its just a placebo effect.

Obviously brother, it is you, not I, that is unfamilar with the placebo effect.

I am detecting a pattern here. Atheists seem to know more than historians when it comes to Jesus, more about religion than any religious person, and now understand medicine better than doctors. Ergo, when doctors ascribe something as unexplainable, well, you see its just the placebo effect.

You do understand atheists, you are making things up in order to justify your own prejudices? You run around calling other unscientific and based in fanatasy, but as soon as teh world throws you a curve ball - you become exactly what you preport to hate the most in others.

An honest atheist would simply acknowledge that there are miracles, but that they are unexplainable currently. A dishonest atheist will speculate to avoid acknoweldging them.

Thus far, not a single atheist in this thread has bothered to look at documented miracles, which of course do no even require acknowledgement before some random excuse is delivered. Its called a hand wave.

 

Couple of things here. First, this is from a Christian Blog, which is naturally going to be as biased. If you want to change minds I would suggest showing proof of the actual medical records from these cases. I've spent awhile in the medical field myself, and I don't mind looking at evidence, even if it's contrary to what I believe. However, I cannot take a blog post as "official evidence" that any of these cases can be attributed to miracles.

Second, Richard Casdroph's study of these cases was compiled and completed in 1976. Not berating medical professionals of the day, but 1976 was not exactly at the pinacle of medical practice and we've come a long way since then. Attributes of many diseases and how the body deals with such complications were only starting to be understood on a greater basis. What we're talking about here is that CT scans and X-rays avaliable in 1976 were well known for showing tumor like protrusions and dark masses within the patients records, and looking at the same scans today would only show imperfections in the scanning processes. I would love to see a modern unbiased study of cases dealing with faith healing, as I would expect the outcomes to be quite different today.

Third, this article deals specifically with the faith healings attributed to the faith healer, Kathryn Kuhlman (the article's author spelled her name wrong). Most faith healings, as we know them today, have been easily disproven as fraud. In fact, I remember one case where a cancer patient went to one of Ms. Kuhlman's events and threw off her back brace and claimed her cancer was cured, but ended up "dying two months later after X-rays showed that a cancer-weakened vertebra had collapsed due to the strain placed on it during the demonstration, as quoted in a Joe Nickell book. Reference point for this case - Joe Nickell PhD. (1993). Looking For A Miracle: Weeping Icons, Relics, Stigmata, Visions and Healing Cures, Prometheus Books."

 

There are even some 'Christians' on this forum who reject Jesus' performing miracles. But the miracles are the very 'seal of approval' of who He was and that He was sent by God the Father.


John 10:25
Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me,

John 10:38

But if I do his work, believe in the evidence of the miraculous works I have done, even if you don't believe me. Then you will know and understand that the Father is in me, and I am in the Father."

Acts 2:22:

22Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

John 20:30,31

And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name

It is important to validate the 'truth' behind the Christian faith. If one rejects His miracles, then one rejects Him as being who He said that He was---sent & approved by God.

 

As far as the medical field, you assume that I don't have in depth knowledge of the bureaucracy of pharmaceutical companies and their relationship with the medical field.
I in fact have a hands on knowledge of a time when it was 'legal' for pharmaceuticals to wine and dine doctors, lavish them with trips to the tropics to 'influence' and reward them for prescribing the latest drug, the latest 'cure'.....
You assume I don't have full understanding of the symptomatic approach of medicine when the body itself is highly capable of maintaining it's strength of form through proactive, preventative measures and a holistic view in approach.
You assume I am not fully aware of the overuse of antibiotics in order to address the self perpetuated weakness of body and mind..... We are not strengthening the body and mind, we are long term creating stronger infection within a body that is weak...... There is a distinct reason that this body is weak, this matters very little in the symptomatic, 'modernist' world of medicine.
When do we wake up and see that the body and mind is plagued with unhappiness in it's denial of form and expression?

If I was God having created a perfecting of form with the cognizant ability for brilliance; and then had that form pray to me to perform miracles to fix what it itself has the capacity to progress within that strength and brilliance, I would appear to every single one praying to me, grab them and shake the (*)(*)(*)(*) out of them.... then I would say "Why are you praying to me when all the answers are staring you right in the face?"
Of course I can only imagine that if God exists, 'he' would be far more patient than I am; and that it would be important to leave us to our own discovery of such brilliance.

 

SHOWING ATMA LINGAM TO PHANI

It was first Monday of Krittika month. Swamy (Myself) started Bhajan in the house of Bhimasankaram. Many new songs composed by him were sung. By 10.30 p.m., all the family members except Sri Phani have slept. Phani was sitting at Swamy’s feet. He generally will not sleep before Swamy sleeps. He was doing Pada Seva. That day Swamy asked Phani to go to bed. But he did not listen. Swamy shouted at him to ‘Go and sleep’. Family members woke up for a while all of a sudden and wondered why Swamy was shouting and then slept again. Phani was adamant and continued doing Pada Seva.

At 12o clock mid night, it is time for Lingodbhava. A radiant (Maha tejo linga) Jyotirlingam came out of Swamy’s heart. ‘Ome’ sound was coming out of it. The walls of the room were not seen. Phani shouted ‘Swamy what is this Shivalinga?’ Swamy replied that it is Atmalingam and comes daily but not seen by anybody. Phani wanted to touch the Atmalingam. Then he dipped his fingers in the Lingam. After about 15 minutes, the Lingam disappeared into Swamy’s heart. After this, Phani was in semi-conscious state for three days. Swamy said Atmalingam i.e. kundalini, adishakthi, Anagha is the first thought of the creator and this thought created the universe. Swamy said that Phani is Adisesha Avataaraa.

 

DIVYA DARSHAN IN MUMBAI

Phani and his sister went to Bombay. One day Phani was thinking about Swamy. He had a vision of Devtas and Rishis discussing about a person who is appearing as a normal person with a bag on his shoulder and changing the destinies of the Universe. Phani was wonderstruck. Devtas and Rishis were wondering about Swamy, and they concluded that he is Datta, who has come down to propagate Jnana and Bhakthi. At the same time Swamy sang a Bhajan at Vijayawada, the meaning of which is that Brahamarishis or devtas cannot identify Datta. Sri Datta Bhagavan is wandering in the world in human form. We are very fortunate enough to prostrate and say ‘Sri Datta Saranam’!

 

REDUCING SUMMER HEAT

Swamy is in fact Datta Bhagavan. Five elements (pancha bhutas) are his servants. Once people asked him to reduce the summer effect. Swamy at first did not agree then reconciled. He did the Bhajan ‘Sri Datta Devam yogadhi nadham Koti suguna Sundaraya …’. After Bhajan, He said ‘The sun is shining brightly because of one the guna of Datta’. He had closed his eyes. It was 4 p.m. The hot sun appeared to cool down. The sky became cloudy and it rained cats and dogs. The nature cooled down from next day. What a miracle! Next year also he had done like this. In the third year, Swamy advised the devotees not to ask Him to interfere in Kala chakra and Karma chakra. The five elements are Swamy’s followers.