Biden Weighs Deploying Thousands of Troops to Eastern Europe and Baltics

Ark, I need your help. I know nothing about Russia other than how to find it on a map. IIRC, wasn't there some drama about Putin propping up Trump in the 2016 election? Also, is he the one that canceled elections to give himself no end date (or something like that)?

Oh, I do recall something else. I thought it was bizarre that Trump tried to get a backdoor deal for the vaccines with Putin. Like Putin, Trump didn't advertise that he got the vaccine. At that time I think Putin outright refused to name which vaccine he received and I don't recall ever hearing about Trump disclosing which one he received either.

What does this positioning mean for the US and the Ukraine and are we looking at another war soon?

 

First, Russia already took Crimea.

That's a calculation I don't understand. Any actual war with US troops fighting Russian troops risks a massive chance of escalation. You presume that Putin or Biden would accept a massive battlefield defeat, then say "well we've done all we can, no hard feelings?" That doesn't really track with the history of warfare or statecraft.

 

Mission Accomplished!

One of the limiting factors of discussion on the internet is that history is reduced to one page: Hitler, Nazi's, Holocaust, World War II. It's like the 5,000 years of world history never existing except for these 7 years. As a result EVERYTHING must be made to fit within a World War II analogy.

Well the truth is, history usually happens for a reason. If you suddenly woke up in 1938 in FDR's body, with all of your future knowledge, I doubt you could have pushed our entry into World War II any quicker than it actually happened. If you think there was any way that the US would...could have declared war on Germany in 1938 after the Anschluss you are sadly mistaken. Although if you have a plan, I would be curious on hearing it...in another thread, because that has nothing to do with this thread.

And the reason why it doesn't apply is because your entire analogy presumes Putin=Hitler, and he has the same plan as Hitler; first Ukraine, then the Baltics, then Poland, and then of course Germany, Italy, France, the UK and every other member of NATO's European members integrated into a Greater Russian Empire.

That may in fact be your view. Mine is that Putin is trying to get control over territories he perceives he lost. Which is why he so opposes Ukraine membership into NATO, because he's not going to cross the line and invade a NATO country, otherwise he would have already taken back the much weaker Baltic States, who also have large contingents of Russian ethnics in their borders.

So if your reason for going to war over Ukraine boils down to "because Hitler" I'm just not buying that.

 

Heh, just like I said, it's like Bill Kristol and Max Boot had a baby!

I have to give some credit to the neo-cons. Although they are a tiny minority, they really can influence the policies of the entire political party, like they did with the Republicans for years. Now that they've fled the GOP for the Democrats, they are taking it over and influencing their policies.

Fascinating to watch and this thread is a good example.

 

Historically, Putin has a good case. Ukraine was the "First Russia" the one founded by the Russ. They actually asked the Tsar to take them over in 1695. While increasingly fractious they still seemed relatively happy to be one of the Russias until 1991.

OTOH History is Bunk (Henry Ford) and/or A Lie Agreed Upon (Napoleon)

OTOOH they are Russia's breadbasket, and feeding themselves is probably Russia's central national concern, it's a major reason they're so big and contributed greatly to the Soviet collapse in 1991

 

Your plan is for us to kneel before him?

Since the MAGA respects him so much, we could help him invade Ukraine.

It isn't my army that threatens to invade Ukraine.

 

Weird that instead of presenting positive arguments to explain and support Biden's policy position, you instead fabricate false positions, attribute them to your interlocutor and then attack them. I think that with some thought and effort that you could do better.

And of course Biden is under a cloud of suspicion that he's operating under the corrupt pressure of blackmail and/or bribery, he's sold his office to foreign bidders, in conspiracy with his drug addled son, and Ukraine is one of the countries he sold out to, and of course Putin knows this, as he also knows that Bribery is constitutionally stated grounds for impeachment.

What did Hunter Biden Do In Exchange For The $3.5 Million He Was Paid By Ex-Moscow Mayor’s Wife?

https://thefederalist.com/2020/09/23/hunter-biden-took-3-5-million-from-ex-moscow-mayors-wife/

So, during the same period while Putin invaded Ukraine in 2014, and, Obama/Biden/Kerry did nothing, a corrupt Russian Oligarch who got sideways with Putin, suddenly got the urge to send $3.5M to the sons of our VP and Secretary of State? Then Ukrainian Oligarchs shoveled $Millions into Hunter's pockets and Nancy Pelosi's son's pockets and now when Putin starts making moves consistent with invasion, instead of yawning like Obama/Biden did before, suddenly it's an "existential threat to all Democracies" and what exactly is Biden preparing to do in response to that threat?

Biden needs to make his case to Congress if he is going to put US Troops in harm's way.

 

I meant Ukraine not Crimea. Wasn’t thinking, my bad. China is warning of a conflict with the U.S. over Taiwan today. The way the world perceives our reactions in one region will embolden others in their region. We should stick with countries who share our democratic values. Backing out of these leaves the perception that they are on their own against these super powers. That will have long lasting effects on our allies. I would hesitate to think this would not effect you more so than standing up to them.

 

On Thursday both Victoria Nuland and Antony Blinken contacted the Chinese in hopes China would help them pull their chestnuts out of the fire in Ukraine. First of all, it is delusional to think for a second this might work. The Chinese reply was predictable.

Here's a bit on it from The Global Times. The Times is acknowledged to reflect the CCP's official stance so this is not some random journalist's opinion.

Washington is trying to create such a public opinion impression that the US is working hard to alleviate the crisis. It wants to kick the ball to Russia and China, making them bear the responsibility while shaping the US as a good man. After Washington set a fire in Ukraine, it has pretended to be a victim and imagines China to "persuade" Russia to put it out. It must be pointed out that Washington is blowing smoke to reverse the cause and the effect.

and.......

To solve the Ukraine crisis, if we are to play a mediating role, we would like to advise Washington that "whoever hung the bell on the tiger's neck must untie it." It should give up the zero-sum game and the Cold War mentality as soon as possible, and use the correct method to put out the fire it set.

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202201/1250196.shtml

 

There is no reason to deploy military assets if you don't intend to use them. We have already decided not to defend Ukraine. What is the point?

 

"A man has to know his limitations."

The US isn't just giving a perception of weakness, it IS weak. We were soundly defeated by sandal wearing savages not 6 months ago and fled Afghanistan in a rout. But trying to pretend that we have our big boy pants on when we clearly don't is what's emboldens our enemies; it's not just about Biden's drooling, it's about a declining power still thinking it's number one when we're clearly not.

There is nothing to back out of with Ukraine. We never had any sort of defense agreement with them and don't owe them anything. The only people in the US who owe the Ukraine are the politicians who were enriched by them for years. If they want to form a new Abraham Lincoln brigade to defend their investment, more power to them, but that's not a role for the United States.

 

Biden is losing his base...

 

I disagree. Allowing the spread of a communist dictatorship over democracies is not something I would never support. Allowing those ideals to spread will be bad for us on both fronts. We stopped competing and we need to pull our heads out of our behinds before we too far back to compete.

 

Biden is threatening war with Russia, in the winter.

​

Why is the Biden Administration threatening war with Russia, in the winter, without Congressional Authorization?

 

Communist dictatorship???

 

At least half of conservatives are neocons who love war. Look at the responses to Afghanistan and Ukraine. Look at what they say. They act like those countries are American states.

Jack Keane on Fox said that Putin wants Ukraine because he is bother by a flourishing capitalistic democracy. What an idiot to say that. Ukraine is the poorest country in Europe.

 

This article sums up the hypocrisy on the right, plus the solid things Biden has done to prepare for a possible conflict with the man/country the previous president encouraged...

SNIP
The GOP slanders are proof that, once again, the Trumpist GOP’s initial response to almost everything is projection. In their accusations that Biden is weak they reveal not only their fear that he is actually strong, but are projecting their own desperate weaknesses in bearing the impossible burden of having to defend their records as part of the worst of any American administration in history.
ENDSNIP

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-cheerleaders-forget-weak-putin-061239238.html

I don't think this yet makes up for some of the mistakes made during the first part of the AF withdraw, but it helps a lot...

Anybody think this Ukraine tenson would have been better handled by TFG??

I didn't think so...

 

That depends. What's a TFG?

 

That depends. What's a Brandon?

 

The meaning of TFG depends on what a Brandon is?

Never mind. I've already lost interest.

 

Nothing Biden has done is solid.

You do not understand my post. Trump is not a pro war neocon. I was being critical of pro war neocons. Either party.

 

To respond to a previous post without bothering to find it Trump was never, never ever anti NATO. That is a total lie.

Asking wealthy European countries to pay their fair share for THEIR OWN security is not anti NATO.

 

He claimed that Americans were being ripped off by NATO member countries.

Is that a presidential attitude for you?

What's more, he tore up the Iran deal when all of our allies, without exception, told him it would be a historic mistake.

So yes, Trump is anti-NATO.

 

He was just anti NATO's most important policy.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2017/05/17/trumps-nato-article-5-problem/

If you want to die on that hill, knock yourself out...