Can I convince PF's resident no-planers that AAL77 hit the Pentagon - #3

Discussion in '9/11' started by cjnewson88, May 27, 2016.

  1. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    Show the SOP on essentially vanished airplanes? When I posted the actual flight data, still you doubt.

    I have to talk now to others.

    And you constantly trying to tell me what is relevant is pretty bad etiquette.

    Do you think they messed up Shanksville too?
     
  2. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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  3. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    This counters the conspiracy to conceal flight 77 crowd .... wait, fringe group

    http://www.rense.com/general32/phot.htm


     
  4. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    They admitted they RECOVERED PARTS, including the FDR. They did not vanish, why do you insist on creating red herrings?

    Where is the serial number on the FDR that physically matches it to the log of the plane in question? Data can be concocted by anyone with the proper expertise. I know because my career is in commercial software technology and I'm fully aware and have the expertise to do that, but one does not need to be an expert to know that. Parts can also be planted or they could belong to something else.
     
  5. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    This crash is not the same as say contacting the ground. It adds a lot more destruction due to hitting a very strong building.

    The FDR was read. It shows the relevant data.

    If you choose to see a conspiracy, it is not because of my efforts. I think my efforts are in vain.

    "The blind never will see"
     
  6. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    Dealt with.

    Ponder this

    http://www.itnewsafrica.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/ff_blackboxes_f-350x222.jpg

     
  7. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    That's correct. I can and have explained to you why the serial numbers to the recovered parts must be matched to the logs. I also explained that this is standard operating procedure specified in the NTSB manual and you still keep railing about that the FDR shows data, which is absolutely irrelevant. It's obvious you know nothing about airplane crash investigations or that you have ever read the NTSB manual despite your claims about your background. In the next post, you show a photo of an FDR, which is also irrelevant, it has nothing to do with failing to investigate as required by NTSB standards. So please keep your blinders on, it apparently gives you comfort.
     
  8. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    Well you are very unhappy by the looks of things.

    So sorry you reject all data that you in your infinite wisdom choose to reject.

    This way you will never get what you want.

    Has it never occurred to you to demand the NTSB supply your urgently needed data?

    You know as I know that no poster has those serial numbers, that if they were given to you, it is highly doubtful you would take their word.
     
  9. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    Pretending ignorance of the facts and the issue by once again changing the subject to make it about me isn't going to help increase your comfort level, trust me on this. You know the issue very well, I don't need to keep repeating it, no one is that obtuse.
     
  10. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    Yes it certainly does.

    Tell the forum who has made demands of me?

    I don't post to allow some people give me the run around.

    Thing is, I tried hard to help you. I even went to your NTSB manual but it is dated 2002 and not 2001.

    Seems to this poster that accepting a yes reply is super hard.

    Review what you learned.

    DNA was taken from the Site.Humans on the airplane are equal, perhaps better evidence an airplane hit the pentagon. Some might claim SN were faked, but DNA is fool proof.

    I honestly think as driven as you are, i would definitely get a FOIA to the NTSB immediately.

    http://911research.wtc7.net/cache/planes/evidence/afip_pentvictimid.htm

    Maybe these people are in on your conspiracy.

    by Christopher C. Kelly
    Public Affairs, Armed Forces Institute of Pathology
     
  11. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    Demands? Why would I make demands of you? Because I asked you to provide something I know and you know doesn't exist? A standard recovered parts identification process, complete with serial numbers, for each recovered part that detached from the aircraft and for extra bonus points a chain of custody for the recovered parts? That demand? I'm sorry I sent you on a wild goose chase but you know it doesn't exist, so that's why you can't produce it and why you insist on changing the subject every time I bring it up.

    Yeah I'm not perfect, I can only produce what I can find. It's really not my manual though, I can't take credit for it. Does the 2001 edition not contain Appendix J (or the Materials Laboratory Examinations section)? Do you have a point?

    Yeah thanks for the above, same problem, no evidence of any parts match. But what's interesting about the above is that they claim they did all that but didn't do a parts match for any of the recovered parts for the 4 alleged planes. They skipped Appendix J - Materials Laboratory Examinations. I wonder who told them to do that or prevented them from doing that? Don't you? Oh wait, you don't ask questions.
     
  12. Blues63

    Blues63 New Member Past Donor

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    You must understand that in arguing with a truther, all former rules of logic and academic process that are held as a given by rational individuals no longer apply.

    For 9/11 truthers, anything will suffice as evidence for a 'smoking gun', even if it is innuendo (cf. the use of the Fire fighters' testimony as a primary source without confirmation), however for rational individuals we have to provide, on demand, every single scrap of information they need to disprove their hypothesis. These standards can never be reached because the truther will find something else that he/she needs to make your case convincing, and against such confirmation bias, evidence and reason will ultimately fail as the standards are continually raised.

    Nothing you provide as evidence will ever be good enough and that's a given. Most of the time it will be completely ignored and we are to expect that. You are a 'shill', or one of the 'sheeple' if you question the failings within a truther hypothesis, therefore, anything you post after such a mental declaration will be ignored, as you are now 'one of THEM™'. Discussing this subject in the face of such extreme confirmation bias is an exercise in futility, and no evidence one can provide will ever be acceptable, and that is how the truther maintains the argument.

    Other points you must ignore are the specious and illogical nature of the premises behind 9/11 truther beliefs. The lack of any sound reasoning behind these so-called 'hypotheses' is compounded by the lack of physical evidence to support them, but we are to ignore that, because if we raise concerns about a canard, we risk being labelled (you guessed it) a 'shill' or 'one of 'THEM™' (see above). One has to accept every premise given by 9/11 truth without a demonstration of its validity or accuracy. It must be taken as a given, even if it defies all your former knowledge on the employment of logic and reason.

    You also raise another cogent point: that is, truthers never enquire through an agency, or company as to whether their claims regarding a point are valid. Apparently, we have to do that for them. You also must understand that we ALWAYS have the burden of proof, no matter how stupid their claims are, or no matter how much they ignore the 'empirical evidence'.

    Finally, you need to ignore the fact that all truther canards are constructed upon logical fallacies. They don't exist in the truther universe unless they need a way out of a predicament, so fully expect the truther to accuse you of employing fallacies (always erroneously) even when one hasn't.

    Anyway, here are some interesting simulations of all four flights (edited) with primary source recordings (ATC's, Crews, NEADS, NORAD, Otis etc.):

    AA11

    https://youtu.be/FvL9xm-_s2k

    UA175

    https://youtu.be/f_A23D4aYbc

    AA77

    https://youtu.be/YFfQX3-At1w

    UA93

    https://youtu.be/U6QJ_qZOSj4

    :rose:
     
  13. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

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    Viewers please look at post #118. Here's a link to it.
    http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=458243&page=12&p=1066251315#post1066251315

    Now look at post #125. Here's a link to it.
    http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=458243&page=13&p=1066252343#post1066252343


    He didn't address anything I'd asked him but he has the attitude that he debunked it all. They wouldn't just laugh him out of the debating hall for that. They'd throw him out. Now he's going to try to bury that part of the debate. Once it's buried, he's going to go on as if nothing had happened.

    There's only one type of poster that behaves this way – a paid sophist.

    https://cultureofawareness.com/2012...-confessions-of-a-paid-disinformation-poster/
    http://www.whale.to/m/disin.html

    http://www.whale.to/b/sweeney.html
    (excerpt)
    -----------------------------------------------------
    6) Artificial Emotions. An odd kind of 'artificial' emotionalism and an unusually thick skin -- an ability to persevere and persist even in the face of overwhelming criticism and unacceptance. This likely stems from intelligence community training that, no matter how condemning the evidence, deny everything, and never become emotionally involved or reactive. The net result for a disinfo artist is that emotions can seem artificial. Most people, if responding in anger, for instance, will express their animosity throughout their rebuttal. But disinfo types usually have trouble maintaining the 'image' and are hot and cold with respect to pretended emotions and their usually more calm or unemotional communications style. It's just a job, and they often seem unable to 'act their role in character' as well in a communications medium as they might be able in a real face-to-face conversation/confrontation. You might have outright rage and indignation one moment, ho-hum the next, and more anger later -- an emotional yo-yo. With respect to being thick-skinned, no amount of criticism will deter them from doing their job, and they will generally continue their old disinfo patterns without any adjustments to criticisms of how obvious it is that they play that game -- where a more rational individual who truly cares what others think might seek to improve their communications style, substance, and so forth, or simply give up.
    ---------------------------------------------
     
  14. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No one needs payment to make truther's look bad.
     
  15. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Robert

    DNA samples were taken? By whom, and according to whom? Would that be the US Dept of Defense at the pentagon?

    In case you're young and trusting, here's a bit of news for you--those guys at the pentagon have been lying for years, at least since the Gulf Of Tonkin incident.

    I learned years ago to never trust a word those guys say. If they say they found and tested DNA, I do not trust them.

    Now, if they would let some disinterested 3rd party go in a verify their claims, that would be a different matter. But they have not and will not. Just as they fabricated the DNA at Shanksville, it's highly likely they did the same at their building.
     
  16. Shinebox

    Shinebox Well-Known Member

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    evidence of fabricated DNA?
     
  17. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    You are trying, not well I might say, to prove the flight 77 did not terminate at the Pentagon. And by what method?

    Parts including SN!!!!

    Yet you never explain what happened to 63 passengers and crew, nor the lost airplane.

    Witnesses plus experts put the lost airplane at the Pentagon. Very heavy damage resulted from the crash. Lives were lost inside the Pentagon.

    Were it other than flight 77, inside the government, are regular people, who would fight to the last breath following your path.

    If your thesis be there was no flight 77, explain the tracks in the sky it did make.

    Anyway, this has gotten to be weird.
     
  18. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

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    I've posted this at least twice.


    You pro-official version posters are talking as if you hadn't seen it. What do you think of that scenario?
     
  19. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    I ask you 911 truthers, to explain the loss of flight 77 and you refer me to sites where alleged experts claim it did not hit the pentagon and when we tell you DNA was collected. Forensic evidence shows where the passengers ended up. If they got into that building as flight 77 escaped to safety, they are real magicians.

    I was presumed to be a youth being paid. I am almost 80. I further am a pilot. Anyway, you guys are experts at dodging. When I post a video, per your side, it is dishonest. When you post a video, suddenly that sort is honest. The pilot you used was not there, nor was I. But occam's razor comes into very good use when you simply simplify.

    Vanished flight 77? You prove to we who are not fond of weird theories like that, what happened to the airplane. Tell us the location of 63 on flight 77.

    Are they in orbit?
     
  20. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    Here are people that actually saw the flight 77 event in person.
    [video=youtube;Js4rlz7gkmw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Js4rlz7gkmw[/video]
     
  21. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

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  22. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    This is 100% false. Why do you need to invent things about me or make 9/11 about me? Is it because you have no argument ... at all? Your intellectual dishonesty reveals itself with all your posts.

    The above is known as reverse BOP (burden of proof). It's not up to me to prove anything. The BOP for the OCT belongs to the official storytellers, the US government. It's up to me (and all those who care and are mentally alert) to question everything. It's apparently your job to question me (applying veiled insults at times) because I'm questioning the US government's failure to legitimately investigate 9/11.

    In this case, I question why specifications for fire crash investigations were not followed meticulously, as required by NTSB standards. And I specifically question why Appendix J - Materials Laboratory Examinations of the NTSB's airplane crash investigation manual was bypassed for all 4 alleged airplane crashed and who prevented that part of the investigation from being conducted or ordered that it be bypassed.

    Matching the serial numbers from the recovered parts to the logs for the alleged planes, along with a chain of custody report and at the very least photos of the parts showing the serial numbers would be near definitive PHYSICAL proof that the parts belong to the actual airplane that crashed. This is even more critical when it comes to the recovered FDR because the contents can be doctored.
     
  23. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    I am so sorry. Since your sole beef is over parts of the airplane, never mind the passengers, you want to post on a forum how upset you are.

    My suggestion is to make use of FOIA which with this admin may get ignored. But try and let us know if you have results.

    Me, I happen to believe sincerely that those lost lives at the Pentagon, the DNA proves very conclusively that they all perished while on 77 and terminated that day at that time.

    As he was talking to his wife. Ted Olson a well known attorney was suddenly cut off as his wife perished.

    I think this is a disservice to the families that perished on that day on flight 77

    But that is just me and no doubt I speak for some other posters.

    I won't play this Serial number game on this forum for sure.
     
  24. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    nothing like admitting you know little to nothing about using DNA as 'proof' of anything.
     
  25. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    yup they will come up with new witnesses to lie for them till hell freezes over LOL
     

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