So this is how you respond when you lay an egg like you did in this thread? You try to change the subject and pretend we didn't all just see you **** your pants in public? Not man enough to own your mistakes?
Lay an egg, still trying to hunt with that lame dog? As for man enough, how deeply reflective but your issue are of no concern of mine. Hey Now, try dealing with the OP instead of galloping away from it like it's the plague. I'll wait for you address the OP and that the far RW fascists are becoming a plague of their own making. Tee it up..
Well, as a counterpoint to your claim that RW fascism leads to insurrections, we've just seen the LEFTIST president of Peru attempt a coup, so I'd say that pretty much wrecks your theory that coups are something unique to the right side of the political spectrum. Certainly throughout history there have been coups / revolutions / government overthrows coming from both the right and left sides of the political spectrum. Anyone who has even a basic grasp of history already knows this. Here in America the right-wing party just got ~ 3 million more votes in the House than the left-wing party did. I'm having a hard time seeing how that is "becoming a plague of their own making".
I have offered numerous links and Snips, which have mentioned this connection. Here is one that spells it out: http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/germany-coup-plot.606232/page-2#post-1073894968 A major belief of members of this group, which is propagated through the Qanon site/chat rooms, is that the allies who defeated Germany in the Second World War, still secretly rule it.
Still running away from the OP like it's the plague then. An amazing example of head in the sand, AKA hypocrisy.....so, the far RW, Q and fascism seem to be made for insurrectionists cultivated by demigod wannabees and verified by history. Just read and address the OP if you can, or do you prefer to seek a comfort zone?
What is the point of this post? You replied to a post not addressed to you and didn't even respond to the issue I was addressing. I actually did you the courtesy to follow your link to another post of yours, AND I checked the article you linked in it, and nowhere did it mention Q. Since that was the topic I was discussing with another poster, it seems like you've just wasted my time on some look-at-me tangent. The lesson here is to not bother following your links because they're irrelevant.
I've already addressed it. Your barely-literate post does not make clear what point you think remains to be addressed. You mistakenly believe that coups are some uniquely-right-wing feature. You are wrong in that belief. What else is there to say about it? Should Germany install a monarch via a coup? No, probably not, but then, despite all the hype, it doesn't look like there was really much chance of that happening anyways, so it seems like a big to-do over a fairly small ... (I was going to call it an "incident" here but I don't think it even rises to that level) ... thought by a few dozen people.
OMG. If you had read merely the OP, you would have seen the first reference to Qanon. I will repeat, I have offered several snips, which have specifically mentioned Qanon. The one that offered you, however, while not mentioning Qanon by name, I thought would be more helpful, because it described the specific theory, of Germany still being ruled by its WW2 defeaters. You are doubtful, then, that this conspiracy, is part of the whole Qanon phenomena? That seems pretty dense, of you. I am not saying that the theory was originally promulgated, by Q. It has, however, found a home, like so much other conspiratorial nonsense, among that group; so the concept is promoted in Qanon forums. I hope that clarifies things, for you.
Look at what you wrote. You defined Israelite, as a term used by people "of lineal descent from Biblical Jews." So you are asking me, my opinion, as to whether Zalensky's bloodline is descended from ancient Hebrews? And you believe that is a reasonable thing to expect people to have investigated? If so, you may find it shocking to hear that: 1) I have no idea of where his ancestors were living, a couple of thousand years ago, and 2) I could not care less, because that seems to me-- believe it or not-- as something that is completely irrelevant to any appraisal of Zelensky, in general, and only more so, in judging his involvement in coup plots in Germany or Peru. Apparently-- though don't ask me why-- you do see this as an important fact.
The Reichsbuerger are a far right lose grouping, which include some AfD members. They have committed terrorist acts of all kind and have been plotting to overthrow the government for at least a decade. This was not the first raid on them. During the Pandemic, Q and his CTs came into play and a large and losely organized group emerged, the so called free thinkers, Querdenker That is a wild collection, anti masker, anti vaxer, anthroposophy ( Waldorf ), esoteric, right wing, Qs, CTs, you name, including Reichsbuerger and know neo nazi groupings. They started to demonstrate, weekly, against the pandemic measures. Q gained a huge follower ship in those wako groups and that has been a serious concern for German police and security organs. The AfD has excellent connections to Russia and has received funding from there. Since 1 of the arrestees is a former member of the Bundestaq for the AfD and currently a judge!!!!!!!, it is not fare fetched, to consider a shadowy Russian connection/involvement. As far as I have been able to find out, in German, the ex-military personnel are former East German soldiers and the policeman are from the Eastern part of Germany. There is no report that German Special Ops personnel have been involved with this nut case plan. Could this plan have succeeded, no, those guys are around the clock observed. They cannot fart without the Federals knowing it. What concerns me is that some members of the AfD hang out with those guys, because it is a Party which sits in the Bundesta/Parliament and mant State Parliaments. The extreme fringes of this Party are legally under observation by the Feds, but never the less, they cozy up to right wing potential terrorist groups and that should not be allowed.
Really, link to your address and in the context of reality and history of the far RW being the fascists and conspiracy nutz? You can't deny reality based on the OP. Link up the post of you addressing this in the OP context.
Relax, DEF, there ain't gonna be a 'coup' in Germany or over here in the States. The Germans have two very efficient, excellent agencies that monitor any and all groups that pose any kind of a threat at all to the German state. They are the Bundesnachrichten Dienst (kinda like a 'mashup' of elements of our FBI and CIA), and, the Bundesamt für Verfassungsschutz (kinda like our FBI). I know you don't take anything I say as being accurate, but I will tell you with a straight face that this German 'coup' was an indescribably stupid, half-assed daydream on the part of the 'coup plotters'. Could it happen over here, you ask...? Look around you. How many people in this country do you think even barely give a **** about anything anymore, other than finding ways to get more 'free stuff' out of the government...? We have become a dumbed-down, ignorant, and docile population with little ambition for anything... and certainly not for anything as exhausting or demanding as staging some kind of 'coup'.... . "Hey, Ma, can we turn up the heat some? It's chilly down here in the basement...."
Anyone who doesn't go along Klaus Schwab's liberal World Economic Forum's future One World government, is called an extremist. For all we know, the German so called extremists, might be in the majority. After all, what nation wants to lose their sovereignty - not to mention freezing in the winter. The German government said there was no response from the Russian side. Of course they're controlled by foreign powers. Do you really think the German people want to freeze or end up in a nuclear war to please Biden, Soros, Schwab and the rest of the globalists? Anyone who read George Soros' letters where he's giving orders to Germany that they're being too lenient with Poland and Hungary and that; "they will' have to reconsider indebting the EU as a whole and start indebting individual nations." Seems they want to go back to a time when they were a sovereign nation, and why not? I'm sure a lot of Germans would prefer it rather than giving up their sovereignty to Klaus Schwab and his future One World Government. GREETINGSAt least I had nothing to gain, not money or elusive fame,can those in charge now say the same? My problem was I feared my head that I might lose it and be deadand gave away my rights instead. And this is why you foolish folk are looked upon now as a jokecontrolled by every criminal bloke who can buy the media. - Jeannette
These people, it is generally agreed, are crackpots, not the majority. Their group has 21,000 members (which qualifies it as a fringe group). And no one, has suggested differently. I imagine Russia realized what a cockamamie plot, this was, by these jokers; had Reichsbürger, however, represented a "majority" of the population, as you had thought possible, Russia may well have responded differently. I had only mentioned that, it did not seem that Russia had passed this information, along to German authorities. Therefore, from the replies I received from others, it seems that the German - Russian relationship, has slid back into a Cold War state.
The allies still rule Germany - or rather those who rule us now also rule Germany through us. Davos you owned us or so you thought not knowing your reasoning though was fraught with hubris, pride and man's conceit. And thus it'll fail for it does pale, before the might of a simple Man who came from above and taught us love. So fight all you want with Satanic hate, but the weight you carry will not prevail, for you'll never control our ultimate fate. - Jeannette
@Lil Mike . Do you see, Mike? This is an idea that flourishes among the conspiracy crowd, including on Qanon discussion sites.
You're right. I've no idea what goes on in Qanon discussion sites and neither do you. The whole Q mention merely seems like an attempt to tie this story to American politics.
No, we don't have "no idea," because both authorities and news agencies monitor this. So, you can only make that claim, if you find government sources no more credible than Qanon ones. Maybe you would fit in, among the Qs? Qanon is not strictly a U.S. phenomenon. It is online. And Germany, has the largest non-English speaking community in the world!* See my 2nd snip, below. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna60492 <Snip> Carsten Koschmieder, from the Free University of Berlin, said the movement has gained support from mainstream society. “Even if Reich citizens or conspiracy ideologues seem like crazy people, many of those arrested come from the middle of society, have normal jobs, friends and so on,” he said. What unites them, he added, was a “belief that the Germans are being oppressed by a powerful foreign power,” or that the German state is assisting in this oppression, therefore justifying an armed insurrection. What do they believe? Reichsbürger supporters reject the very idea that the modern German state exists. The true Germany, they say, is the constitutional monarchy that reigned before the modern republic was established. Others within the movement argue Germany is under military occupation. <End> "The U.S. isn't a democracy-- it's a Republic"-- Why does that phrase come to my mind? <Snip #2> Like the Sovereign Citizen movements in the United States, they argue that modern laws do not apply to them... However, the movement has become externally politicized and shares with the QAnon conspiracy theory the idea that Germany is held captive by the “deep state.” And like Q followers, Reichsbürger members believe Germany will soon be liberated from tyranny — not by Donald Trump, but by an alliance including the governments and intelligence services of the United States and Russia. *“The Reich Citizens’ Movement has grown parallel to the QAnon movement in Germany during the pandemic, they share many stories and are very closely intertwined. *Germany has the largest non-English speaking QAnon community in the world,” Dittricht said... What role did Covid-19 play? The pandemic was a catalyst for far-right groups across Europe. Previously obscure activists found a wide audience through social media platforms such as Telegram and grew a sympathetic audience. People who were worried about the state’s overreach soon found far-right voices who offered an explanation for it — which happened to include conspiracy theories often based on the role of shadowy globalists or deep-state actors. “These people have always been there but they were extremely empowered by the anti-Covid measures movement. They were radicalized because it allowed them to say they had the right to take action, including armed action,” said Neumann. “It allowed them to say, ‘This has become so bad, we need to act.’ The pandemic allowed them to broaden their movement. Before, they were so crazy they were sidelined.”
An important observation, which I think is also applicable to the "company kept," by some Right wing politicians, in the U.S.
@gnoib -- I enjoyed, & appreciated, your post. I am just alerting you, here, as to one correction in your understanding, about Special Forces military personnel, being part of this plot.* That isn't true, that I don't believe anything you post. Did you, however, see my last reply to you? Because I'd explained that it did not require a fear of these radicals' success, to still find armed insurrection plots, concerning. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna60492 <Snip> The news Wednesday that a far-right group had plotted to overthrow the German government in a coup surprised many around the world who thought the country had largely done away with its extremist right wing. But experts in Germany and elsewhere who had been tracking groups inspired by paranoid conspiracy theories and emboldened by the wider movement against pandemic measures said it was only a matter of time before something like this happened. So what is known about the group that was the subject of one of the biggest counterterror operations in German’s history, featuring more than 3,000 police officers and special forces? Who are the plotters? The plotters, 25 of whom were arrested during the operation, are charged with being part of an extremist terrorist organization that harbors a mixture of conspiracy theory-driven beliefs. Its members include a *serving special forces officer and an eccentric aristocrat who holds and still uses a historic royal title. The group, which has not been named by officials, was founded no later than November 2021 and was in the process of planning an armed insurrection in order to install its own government, German prosecutors said. The group is closely associated with the extremist Reichsbürger movement — literally meaning “citizens of the Reich,” or kingdom — which rejects the legitimacy of the German state. Miro Dittrich, an expert at CeMAS, a German group that monitors right-wing extremism, said this was not the first far-right group to have plotted a coup d’etat in recent years. “Today’s group, however, was larger, further along in the planning and better connected with people trained in the [use of] weapons,” he said. The country’s domestic intelligence agency, the Office for the Protection of the Constitution, began tracking Reichsbürger members in 2016 after one of them shot and killed a police officer who had been sent to confiscate his guns... A taste of what could happen was seen in 2020, when almost 40,000 protesters marched in Berlin to show their anger at Covid-19 measures. Around 100 to 200 of them attempted to storm the Bundestag, the German Parliament. They were repelled, some 300 were arrested, but the size and potential power of the movement was beyond doubt... So what’s next? “It’s a success for the security agencies in that they have stopped this. But I don’t think it’s the last plot we will see like this,” Neumann said. “I would be very surprised if there weren’t any other networks that were uncovered.”
From the Constitution Your argument for Q being a vital part of this German coup plot seems to be that if it's in a newspaper, it has to be true. Well something being in a news paper doesn't mean it's NOT true, but the first draft of history has been notorious wrong, especially lately. It hasn't been that long ago that newspapers were claiming that Trump had the nuclear codes with him in Mar-a-lago. As usual, you wrote quite a lot not about the issue but irrelevant tangents, such as about Covid, all without demonstrating any proof or evidence that Qanon is pulling the strings behind this coup plot. To me, that still sounds preposterous but it could be true, I'll just wait for the evidence before swallowing things whole.
What I remember about 'extremists' in the Bundeswehr is that in 2016 (?) there were a few guys who put up pictures of former German Chancellor Helmut Schmidt in his Wehrmacht uniform in the barracks in a couple of army bases, and the Verteidigungsministerin (German Defense Minister) at that time, Ursula von der Leyen, started a big 'witch hunt' for "Nazis" in the military. Here's the offending picture of Schmidt that sent Fr. von der Leyen into such a 'tizzy'... . Helmut Schmidt was a Lieutenant in the Luftwaffe in WWII, and later, possibly the best Chancellor that the modern-day Bundesrepublik (Germany) has ever had.... Next, honestly, I don't see how 40,000 Germans raising hell in Berlin about COVID restrictions/measures is any indication of support for anything having to do with 'far-Right' ideology. Just a few days ago, thousands of Chinese were raising hell about the same thing over there, but it didn't pose any 'far-Right' threat to the iron-fisted rule of dictator, Xi Jinping! Without trying to 'blow a horn', I will only say that I have friends in Germany who are very knowledgeable about this 'stuff', and they tell me this big, overblown reaction to some old aristocrat who thinks he's the reincarnation of Graf Heinrich XIII and some of this buddies is regarded as little more than a joke by everybody over there -- except in the government and in 'far-Left' factions. Link: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/12/08/prince-heinrich-germany-far-right-coup/ . Heinrich XIII... the man who would be the new 'Kaiser of Germany'...?
@DEFinning the special forces in that police operation are GSG9, they are not military. They are a special anti terrorist police force, established after the disaster at the Munich Olympics. GSG 9 - Wikipedia
