Islamophobia? What really are you afriad of?

"In a different way" seems to be universally in a sexist way. Read whatWhitestruggler says below. Instead of defending brutality in the name of law, it should be decried. I am not an American so i would not claim to know anything about what the founding fathers intended.

I agree. One can only be in service of the principles by speaking out against it when that is warranted.

 

And the American legal system will put you to death for murder-yet your death rows are bursting at the seams...

 

Well implementing the death sentence is a long process involving years of due process. Would you prefer if it went quickly?

 

I'm afraid of having shoes thrown at me.

 

I'd prefer it was abolished altogether. It clearly doesn't work, and there's far too much room for fatal errors-as has happened. Capital punishment has no place in a society posturing as advanced and an example for others to follow, whilst at the same time castigating others for their barbarism.

 

The difference between the American system and these Islamist ones is that we have a Constitution that is used by the judicial branch to root out laws that defy it.

There really isn't much of an equivalent for this in most Islamist societies, nor is there much public support for such reforms.

I judge religions by how their leadership and related cultures act. So far, few Islamic cultures can compare to the West regarding minority rights, so therefore I distrust how they operate.

You can excuse it by saying it's the fault of pre-Islamic customs, but there's most certainly a melding of these customs with Islam in various countries -- like Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, and Iran.

Until that changes, I can't really view their social environments in a positive light, nor can I view anything relating to Sharia Law as such.

To be fair, I sure as hell wouldn't want a Christian equivalent of Sharia in place in America either.

Theocrats of every stripe cannot be trusted.

 

The West has its own issues with barbarism, but that has more to do with interventionism.

As far as most domestic policy goes, however, America is still very much ahead of every Islamic culture in terms of social progress.

 

Umm the Quran and the sayings of Mohammad would be the equivalent of that.

What is the basis of that statement?
Would you say that the Patriot Act is something the founding fathers would have supported?

I agree. At present, most Muslim countries have fallen behind in education and thus ultimately, their knowledge of Islam itself. Both are detrimental to the society as a whole.

To be fair, most educated Muslims are not for Sharia law either since a lot of those laws do not apply in today's time. However, one must also acknowledge that a lot of good things can be learned from those laws. Also, a lot of the "fear" of Sharia is just another excuse to put Muslims in a bad light.

 

Social progress? That depends on the country.. They aren't all alike. You can't lump KSA. Afghanistan and Iran together.

Most people have no concept of what its like to live in Saudi Arabia.. I can't speak to Afghanistan and I haven't been to Iran for decades. But in KSA they have very high standards concerning a "civil society"... I have always found it to be tolerant, modest and mannerly.

Hard to convey that both men and women are supposed to be modest not only in dress but in speech and behavior.

 

Modesty means nothing compared to freedom.

 

Your line of reasoning isn't that different from Christian conservatives that want more religion in government.

If people want to follow Islam more in their personal lives, that's fine. Religion is meant to a be a personal thing, not a government thing.

If it's any consolation, I don't view any religion in a positive light. I still support the freedom of religion, but I have no interest at all in being a part of it.

 

To them modesty is important.. You know you can't wear a thong bathing suit in Myrtle Beach? How does that impact your freedom?

Every community is permitted to set standards.

Did you know you can't go topless at the Darlington 500?

 

While it is true that freedom is a spectrum, I heavily lean in the "freer" direction.

I don't even think America is free enough, which is why I push for fewer restrictions on personal behavior. It may not be as "modest" or "civil", but at least it keeps the government less on my back.

You're right that every community has its own standards though. I have absolutely no interest in visiting Saudi Arabia or the vast majority of the Islamic World. They're free to set whatever laws they want, but I wouldn't put up with that level of government intervention.

I can barely put up with some of the silly laws here.

 

I feel pretty free.. but then I felt free in KSA, Kuwait, Libya and Lebanon.

 

Whatever floats your boat. As a man, I'm sure I'd feel freer in a lot of Islamic countries than I would if I was a woman and had to wear a veil or some head-to-ankle black sheet.

 

Oh I am a woman but it never was an obstacle in the ME... and I have never worn an abaya or a veil.

 

Did you only go to areas where they weren't required?

 

I went every where ..... to the souks, the beach, camping in the desert... to other towns, to ruined fortresses to the Hofuf caves... to the salt flats.

 

Cool, i didnt see the optional clause when it comes to Islam and Sharia, can you point it out for me? Id love to read the fine print

How often is jihad mentioned? How many times is praying 5 times a mentioned? How much of the Koran discusses non Muslims and their treatment?

Its fantastic news to hear Muslims can just wipe out massive parts of Islam and still follow the greatest example, Mohammed. 90+ times the koran says this does it not, which unlike other scriptures actually is the direct word of god. Which correct me if im wrong.... you cant change? Clearly ive missed the fine print, so if you'd kindly point it out to me it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

The Koran only permits defensive wars.. women, children and the elderly are non combatants. They are not permitted to destroy trees, crops, livestock, water sources.

They also have to go to the peace table at the first sign the enemy is willing.

Jihad is the internal struggle to be a good Muslim and obedient to the will of God.

Christians and Jews are not infidels. Sometimes you have to learn about the subject matter.

 

Do they not force foreign women to cover up?

 

Rubbish, Islam has and does fight offensively as proven by history.

yes Jihad can be an internal struggle but in something like 90%+ times its reference in the koran is to warfare.

And theres a limited time they can keep a peace treaty no? Usually only when the Muslim is weak otherwise slaughter them where you find them.

The spin doctoring is laughable

 

Who are "they", and why do you think "they" would?

 

Not until 1979.. and that was mostly a screw up because there were so many new hires .

The Iranian Revolution and the attack on the Grand Mosque caused a giant step backwards.. to more rigid forms. It also came at a time when Saudis were outnumbered 7 to 1 by foreign workers on the huge infrastructure projects.

But, in recent years when I have returned to visit, I was asked NOT to wear abaya by Crown Prince Salman.

Its loosening up again.. Now you see soft pastel abayas in Jeddah and embroidered abayas in Riyadh.

I have always felt safe and comfortable...

 

Religious police in Saudi Arabia seem to get around a lot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutaween