Martial Arts, Self Defense, and Combat Sports

Better check your sources. Amateur MMA and professional MMA are under two different blankets in many states.

http://www.ifightsports.com/USAStates.htm

 

Thank you Kronik - it appears as f I was correct: pro MMA is or appears illegal in only 4 states as I mentioned above. However, I was not aware amateur MMA was illegal in 4 other states. The trend is towards making it legal in all.

So why is there is no much objection to it? Blood sport ???? There are many debilitating injuries and some fatalities in football and other sports. Besides, pole vaulting is the most dangerous sport anywhere but it continues on college campuses and pro levels.

Some of the dangers in MMA can be reduced by not allowing prolonged use of the arms around the neck. If someone has his arms around another's neck for more than 10-15 seconds and the victim cannot get out of the hold, then the referee should be forced to stop the match. In the video which I presented above, Amanda had her victim in a choke for 7 seconds then released - then she got him in that same hold for another 15-18 seconds before he tapped out. When the first choke was applied the ref could be forced to give a standing count as in boxing. When the second choke was applied and it was clear he could not get out of it, the ref can count to 10 and stop it by citing the equivalent of a TKO.

In this video the ref clearly saw that the opponent was not going to be able to escape and he called the match over:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfMy_VLbKDA&feature=relmfu

That is all that needs to be done. You don't have to wait 18 seconds or until someone is blue in the face before you call the end of the match.

There are many other reforms that can be employed as well.

 

I can't stand it when the audience starts booing because the fighters are being cautious.

 

Most of those morons are A. too drunk or B. don't have any idea WTF they are looking at and thought that they came to see a boxing match.

 

This is only the ideal situation. Ideally she'd have time to realize she's about to be attacked, that she's actually able to draw the weapon before she's attacked, that the attacker actually backs down, that she's able to avoid having her weapon stripped, that she's able to shoot under pressure... able to hit the target... etc.

I never said a woman could "take some" JiuJitsu classes and competently defend herself, I'm just pointing that it's nonsense to think it would take years, as you suggested. In less than six months of 2hr classes, 2-3 times a week, then she'll have more than a fighting chance.

99%? Really?!? You don't have to throw a proper strike to knock someone out/injure them anyways. Besides, you've got it backwards... the majority of people are completely ignorant about grappling, whereas most people have some basic idea of how to fight standing up. This is why it makes sense to focus more on grappling and good defense against strikes.

Usually? I hardly think so. A guy with exceptional or phenomenal standup maybe. A decent guy is probably going to get suckered or tackled, then he'll be stomped.

I don't think so. I mean, they know what they're getting into, they've trained and conditioned. I'd just view them as another fighter.

 

There is minimal dangers in chokes for MMA, as the intent is never to put pressure on the throat, but to apply pressure on the major artery to restrict oxygen flow. This may sound dangerous, but is in fact one of the safest ways to incapacitate someone. The danger in any sport of a strike to the throat that closes the air way is a much more real danger.

As far as appearances, it might behoove the UFC to not let athletes snap arms, or ankles. Not the best visual for those who have negative opinions already.

 

They train together, you could watch them spar.

Could not roll on the mat with that girl without things getting awkward!

 

'Ideal situation', lol! A woman with a weapon is far more lethal than one without. That's a fact, don't dance around it with 'what ifs'.

No, she won't have more than a fighting chance. I've spent quite a bit of time grappling in my life, 12 years wrestling at a competitive level and 4 years on and off at our Gracie Academy here in Columbus. A 135 lb female with 6 months of BJJ wouldn't be able to even take down anyone but the most fragile male opponent. A 200 lb man would toss her around like a rag doll, and that's without throwing a punch.

How many times have you seen or heard of a woman choking out a man in a actual fighting scenario. Zero, right? Because that crap doesn't happen in real life.

That's correct. What percentage of the population have taken any sort of boxing, muay thai or kickboxing classes? I'll agree, in a 1 vs 1 situation grappling in second to none. Throw in 1 more person to the fray and going to the ground is the biggest mistake a person can make in a fight.

And you're basing this on? I've seen it with my own eyes, on more than one occasion, and not on some youtube video. The fact of the matter remains, going to the ground in a bar fight is beyond a stupid idea.

Right. Well, you don't have a vested interest in MMA, others do. For the same reason you don't see women boxing men, you won't see women fighting men in MMA.

 

The 'what ifs' I listed are realistic considerations.

That's total crap dude. She doesn't have to take him down, he's probably going to do that for her. For example, if he tries to rush her, putting all his momentum forward, she can pull guard. If he knows nothing about grappling, he's just unwittingly put himself in a terrible position. At six months of training a few times a week, she'll know basic subs from the guard. She'll know when it's time to abandon one thing and work on another... for example, she tries to go for a triangle, he tries to lift and slam, she lets go and works on sweeps. JiuJitsu is about technique, and it's one of the few arts that actually favors technique over strength.

Well, don't widen the goal posts too much. The average weight of men and women is not 135 vs. 200lbs.

How many women study JiuJitsu? How many woman do you see knocking guys out?

There are plenty of good scrappers and brawlers out there.

You might up being screwed either way. As I said earlier, being on your feet doesn't make you immune to gravity, being on the ground doesn't mean that you can't avoid attacks, that you can't escape.

Being decent at striking is not good enough in this scenario, if you're not better than decent, it's probably lights out or going to the ground anyways.

That's a fair point actually, but again, there is the ground element which levels things out. Maybe someday in the future.

 

Sure they are, but you are skirting the issue. A woman armed with a firearm is far more secured in their person than one without.

Wow. Just wow. Since this imaginary female seems to be master of all that is combat arts, why not just throw a axe kick during the initial rush crushing her opponents skull?

Lets get real, that scenario you just described has never, ever happened.

The average weight of a man in the US is 191 lbs. What do you think the average weight of an in-shape female is?

I have no idea to the first question. As to the second question, I've never seen it before other than a video or two on the internet of a guy letting a female hit him.

A 'scrapper'? Meaning a guy that doesn't know how to properly block or slip a punch, doesn't tuck his chin, doesn't understand proper combination punching or counter punching, throws nothing but hail mary hooks etc. I could go on and on. Tough guys are a dime a dozen. Guys that actually know what they're doing are rare.

If that's the case so be it, but I would much rather have a fighting chance on my feet than getting a certain stomping on the ground.

It sounds like my definition of 'decent' differs from yours. I'm not referring to these so called brawlers and scrappers as you mentioned. A guy who has trained boxing, MT, etc. The difference between a guy who has trained in these is no different than a BJJ purple belt grappling someone who's never hit the mat in their life.

Explain to me how it levels things out, please. Women are still much physically weaker than men pound for pound, they're slower, have less of a gas tank, have a harder time cutting weight, etc. They are genetically inferior to men in every aspect that applies to combat. Men are still men and women are still women no matter where the fight goes.

 

Provided things go in her favor, which isn't guaranteed at all. She can't carry thing everywhere she goes. What about places were you're not allowed CCW? All I'm trying to point out here that a firearm does not absolutely equate to 'protected'. Therefore 'just getting a gun' as you mentioned earlier, is not a cure all.

Hyperbole much?

How do you know? Never mind, that's rhetorical, you don't know. It's not even an unlikely scenario... It's highly plausible that a man will try to take a dominant position, especially if he intends to rape a woman, which would conveniently place him in her guard... a triangle choke would be a possibility, him freaking out and doing what inexperienced people typically do in that situation (lift and slam) is highly likely, her realizing that it's a good opportunity to sweep and work for a mount is likely.

I don't mean to be a dick, but do you know anything about JiuJitsu? That entire scenario I just described is typical.

So it has to be that way? It couldn't be a big boned gal and a skinny guy? It couldn't be 150lbs girl, 200lbs guy who's actually a big (*)(*)(*)(*)(*) who just looks kinda intimidating?

There are some YT videos of girls knocking guys out, actual altercations.

The point is, you don't have to be trained to throw a proper punch. If it works, then it's proper. Some people have good natural ability. So, your claim that 99% of guys can't throw a proper punch is kinda silly.

To be honest, I'm avoiding a fight were it's just me against another guy who has a bunch of friends lurking about like they want in on it too.

I've seen plenty of 'trained' fighters who I'd consider having decent striking ability. As for the BJJ comparison, it sort of falls short since we're talking about a decent striker vs. several opponents... unless you're talking about a decent grappler having a ground battle with multiple know nothings.

Simple! Take a guy and a girl of same relative size, same relative time spent training and conditioning, but say the guy has a good standup game and a weak ground game, but the girl has great strike defense and is also excellent at Judo and JiuJitsu. My money is on the girl in that scenario.

 

It goes without saying that this is true for men as well.

There are many videos on YT which prove your point. The example of Miss Leve in the video I presented is one such example and it was no fluke. This despite the fact that she was smaller and weighed less ~ but was still physically stronger thanks to her extensive training regimen.

 

There have been fatalities in MMA and I attribute that to the stupidity of certain referees. In the post above (#52) I mentioned how one referee allowed a choke to continue for 18 seconds before the helpless male wrestler tapped out. In the other video the referee waited only 7 seconds to stop it when it was a female victim. On this video the referee waits 34 seconds before he realizes the victim (again a male victimized by a female) is rendered unconscious:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hn8Jrx6XKzU&feature=g-hist


34 seconds! In such a period of time most people would have been dead.

 

It takes 5 minutes of no oxygen before you begin to do brain damage. I think you are talking out your arse!

 

Up to now we have had an intelligent exchange. Is it possible for you to keep it that way or must you lower yourself to typical right wing childishness?

There have been many athletes who have been discovered to have irregular heartbeats only after they played for a number of years. This has resulted in serious illness or in death (this especially so in international soccer). I was an excellent athlete for many years until I was felled by a minor heart attack at age 31 while on a playing field. Such irregularity heart conditions are generally not detectible despite all the advances in science. If a person's oxygen or circulation is cut off momentarily it can result in a fatality. Do some research on the matter and let's keep the exchange clean if you have enough sense and ability to do so.

 

(*)(*)(*)(*)ing this. As someone who's trained and sparred, I can appreciate it, but a lot of these morons can't. They booed the Dodson fight for no reason last week. It's like they want a Chris Leben fight every time out. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a good brawl as much as the next guy, but a strategic fight can be just as exciting.

 

The lack of oxygen triggered a pre-existing condition.

I call a spade a spade.

 

This is true. It's a safe sport, but their are really bad refs

 

Thank you - it was a point I tried to make but it seemed to be lost on Pimp.

There have been many - FAR too many - inconsistencies on the judgments made by referees. Some end matches too quickly, some fail to end them in due time and a fighter gets injured or debilitated. There is another matter that is not often discussed in sports - that is the myth that a woman, somehow, cannot hurt a man. That somehow females are just too dainty to be able to impose damage. But as anyone can readily see those two women imposed very severe headlocks so that one boy's face turned colors while the other passed out. Athletes, referees, and fans should never under estimate womens arm or upper body strength. Because when they do a victim could be very seriously damaged.

 

Amen XL. I can understand if a fight is spent entirely on the ground and goes nowhere. But for the most part I enjoy a good ground match just as much as a good stand up bout. You and I appreciate it because we can trained and understand what is happening. To me, Jiujitsu is like a chess match, you always have to think a few moves ahead.

How do you propose to change that? Referees are the same in every sport, they are only people after all and will make different judgements.

 

First of all, UP THE REPUBLIC! to you. I had many Irish buds in NY when I lived there. In fact I called my closest pal my Irish Kid Brother - the guy was all class in every way but sadly passed away. If you or anyone else met his kids you'd all wish they were yours.

I already mentioned a 10 second rule ~ when the aggressor has a choke hold for 10 seconds, the victim should be given a standing or sitting 8 count. Thereafter, the opponents restart from a neutral position. If the victim is again put into a 10 second count choke hold, then the ref should call a TKO. You simply do not wait 34 seconds with someone having her powerful arms around a victim's neck. It is just too dangerous.

When bloodied, the ref should have the ring side doc stop the blood of the victim. Then he may call back both into neutral in mid ring. When discussing UFC the biggest complaint I hear from squeamish people is that there is too much blood and the floor is not properly sanitized as it is in the NCAA. I don't mind blood - just stop it and allow the fight to resume.

I'm sure others can come up with better ideas.

 

We were drilling an awesome technique the other night. It's a transition from an armbar, to a triangle choke, once the armbar fails due your opponent gripping or clasping their hands.

[video=youtube;t5GNjPrGEfE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5GNjPrGEfE[/video]

We do it a bit different though, we try to secure the triangle before they start turning into you. It really sucks to be on the receiving end of this, it's a feeling of utter helplessness.

 

Very sorry to hear about your friend.

During the 10 seconds, is the fighter actively trying to get out of the choke? I have never seen a fighter who had their A. hands down or B. were not actively trying to turn and duck their chin to get out be held in a choke for 10 seconds or longer. As it is now, if the ref is unsure he was usually raise one arm to see if it will stay up.

This is not only impossible, but ridiculous. It is fighting, there will be blood. /endofstory. If you can't take the sight of blood than you are watching the wrong sport.

 

My Irish kid brother was a health & fitness buff who was in love with life, with the human race, and with God. I never met anyone who took better care of himself. Somehow he got sick & died only months later at a young age. I keep a photo of my Irish niece & nephew right near me to remind me of him and his beautiful wife who I still call my Irish kid sister.

Standing knock downs are used in pro & amateur boxing for safety reason. Do the same for mma for 10+ second chokes.

As for blood, there is too much and that 's what turns off so many. I work as a mod on a sports forum where we present live broadcasts of mma ppv's. The biggest complaint I get from full contact sports noobs is the excess blood.

To each their own, of course. Nobody is forced to watch it but nobody wants to see any form of needless fatalities. We'll see whether it ever reforms its rules. I suspect an increase in fatalities will do it - time will tell.

 

An obscure bit of UFC history-

You think today's MMA is violent? MMA events could have been far more extreme. Back in the early 90's, the Dog Brothers made an attempt to introduce stick fighting into the UFC. But to nobody's surprise, the idea was D.O.A.



The Dog Brothers in action:

[video=youtube;are3tsH-EgQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=are3tsH-EgQ[/video]