New German Battle Ship capable to fire projectiles into space

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by Sobo, Jan 20, 2020.

  1. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    That is not a cruise missile. A cruise missile flies below 1000. Why do you think they are sub sonic, air density. It would cost far to much fuel to go Mach 1.
    Why do you think this projectile flies so high. Same problem as with the SR 71, friction. If it would just go to airliner altitude, 35,000 feet, it would burn up a hypersonic speeds and lets assume it would not burn up, or getting destroyed by the aerodynamic pressure, it would need insane amounts of fuel to get to Hypersonic speeds and maintain it.
    That sucker flies a ballistic curve and when it runs out of fuel and the engine stops, it immediately decelerates, like hitting a brick wall.
    When it hits the ground it will be supersonic, friction of the air.
    Physics.
     
  2. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

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    Man, they like to play dangerous games. The closest I came to that sort of stuff was in the 70's on exercise at Ft Bragg, the F4's from our base would kick in the afterburner when they got over us. Helicopters liked to play at tree top level until you heard one go clunk, then silence. A couple aboard died and that game stopped.
     
  3. Sobo

    Sobo Banned

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  4. pitbull

    pitbull Well-Known Member

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    Pootin. He wants his GDR back!
     
  5. pitbull

    pitbull Well-Known Member

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  6. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Russian's have been building super sonic (not hypersonic) anti ship cruise missiles since the mid 90's . India joined the party (with the help of Russia) shortly after - then China. The Onyx does Mach 2.5.

    A missile going Mach 5 - hypersonic - will not burn up at 35,000 feet. https://nationalinterest.org/blog/b...c-ship-killer-missiles-are-just-deadly-115456
     
  7. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I doubt NATO will last long. Trump is ending the US relationship with Europe with all his threads and sanctions.
     
  8. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think Germany will be well able to defend herself with a little left over for attack but then the US is demanding they build up their military so what's a person to do.
     
  9. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    Actually, that is a valid question. In order for Germany even to test its missile system, they must go to the island of Crete in the Mediterranean, or, to White Sands Missile Base in New Mexico (outside Alamogordo). The Bundeswehr used to have a fairly large contingent of troops with a training mission assigned to Biggs Army Air Field and Ft. Bliss in El Paso, Texas, but now most of them (fewer now) are at Holloman AFB at Alamogordo (for the Luftwaffe).

    But the biggest problem for Germany is not having to go outside their own country to have a place to test weapons systems, and their technology is quite good. No, the problem has been getting enough money dedicated to the military to maintain SPARE PARTS when the equipment wears out or breaks down. Maybe now that Germany has gotten rid of Ursula von der Leyen as Defense Minister and placed Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer (popularly known simply as "AKK") in that position, the troops in the field can have regular maintenance of equipment, and SPARE PARTS! :w00t:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2020
  10. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Jules Verne voyage to the moon - projectile fired from cannon.
    On earth this would burn up said projectile.
    To get out of the earth's atmosphere you need go to slow at
    first as you climb, then past Max Q you can accelerate. A
    simple projectile with no internal thrust cannot do that easily.
     
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  11. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    @Sobo et al

    Please Notice Some "Nations"
    such as the Brits and :flagus: have a culture for Naval Warfare
    while other, although their ships may be uber advanced for their time
    simply lack the quality of leadership.
    Japan as a student of Britain came close, 1905. but no cigar.

    China.
    India.
    Russia.
    Germany, Austria, Italy are just not culturally "naval" beyond their bellybuttons.


    So those that would take on the :flagus: Navy
    what land based weapons they gonna use.
    ;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2020
  12. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    Quiet a few facts are wrong.
    von der Leyen, was actual the defense minister who managed the new start of the Bundeswehr. Rebuilding the supply infrastructure and the switch to a nor draft Army.
    It was not money which caused the spare parts problem, but going to a on demand system and not warehousing spare parts. It saved money, as it does in the industry, warehouses on wheels, but the most wrong approach possible for a army. Under von der Leyen's tenure that infrastructure was rebuilt. Avery difficult process, extremely expensive and not jet finished.
    Additionaly she managed the change from a draft to a professional Army. It took the US over a decade to accomplish that.
    Leyen made many mistakes managing those 2 projects, but overall she succeeded and did a good job, as one of the longest serving defense ministers of Germany.
    AKK can built on that. She got the job for political purposes, to gain some profile as the head of the CDU.
    As of now I can only say about her, she did one thing right. Get the Bundeswehr out of the shadow. Do some serious public relations work for the Bundeswehr and its soldiers. Make them part of the society, again.
    Von der Leyen was the spearhead of the European defense initiative, working very close to gather with France.

    I would be rather careful, if I had to deal with her, all bases covered and than still, more than careful. She is a Merkel in a very powerful position
     
  13. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    Even if you are correct about what von der Leyen did for the Bundeswehr, it is obvious that based on the fact that there are still so many Luftwaffe aircraft that cannot fly, so many Herres panzers that cannot be deployed, and so many Bundesmarine ships that cannot sail, AKK has a great deal of work to do.

    It wasn't all von der Leyen's fault. German legislators wanted to cut defense spending as much as possible after the fall of the Soviet Union, and put all the "peace dividend" into even more welfare giveaways and social programs. And it's not just the military that has suffered.

    Today, Germany has enormous problems with overly-congested highways that go unrepaired, new highways that are not built on schedule, and trains that cannot even be relied upon to stay above water because the tracks have been neglected for so many years! And, how many years have Berliners been waiting for that new airport? Oh, I remember a Germany that was very, very different from the sad MESS that it has turned into today....
     
  14. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    Wrong again. Herres Panzer do not exist, just for starters.
    Yes the Bundeswehr is not up to shape jet and a lot needs to be done.
    It was not VDL's fault. She had to take on what mistakes were made in the past.

    You are wrong about the infrastructure, maybe not quiet up to snuff to German expectations, which are extremely high and spoiled.
    Lets remember Germany is as large as Colorado. Colorado 6 million people, Germany 82 million people. Roads are congested, well yes, population density will do the trick.
    I was just in Germany, 3 month ago. The quality of roads and rail service is just stunning, would blow your mind away. Colorado is one of the wealthier States, but it even does not get close to what ever is the consider minimum standard in Germany.
    Honestly, not false patriotism.
    Building on schedule, well yes its a problem, because everybody has an input and the right to demand answers and to go to court to demand the answers and have his/her individual rights protected. Its a democracy.
    Were in the US do you have trains that go over 300 kmh. I sat in one, 3 month ago, 325 kmh, around 200 mph, smooth as it could go, had me a nice dinner served with a nice white, $ 60, for 300 miles, Wifi, charging stations and so on. First class, early booking.
    Interstates, HWY, you have no idea. We drove from my home town to Dortmund to watch a football game. The friend has a Audi 5 or something like that, from a Tuner. Some were around 600 hp. You talk about flying, 190 miles an hour. Scared the crap out of me, because of the trucks flying past on the right. Smooth ride other wise. No bumbs, just smooth. 190 mph in a freeking car. Try that on a US interstate, you would die, because of the quality of the roads.
    Under water, rail tracks, were did you get that one from, because of low maintenance?

    Berlin Airport, a gigantic screw up. Crap happens.
    If you want to look at a serious infrastructure projects, look at Stuttgart 21. The whole project, mind bogling. Full of screw ups, that is a engineering feet, the US never will be able to do.
    Mind you, Germany spends billions. 100s of billions in its infrastructure, its it live line, besides being the transit country of Europe and still runs a gigantic budget surplus since 10 years.
    The US can't pull of a serious high speed rail system, or even a rail system which transports freight at a 100 mph and needs how many trillion to revamp its aging infrastructure, which it does not have. Can't even make a surplus.
    Germany will spent 150 Billion, besides the current billions, to improve, just the rail system, over the next 10 years, without a credit, cash.

    So show me what the US is investing, into the future of transportation, beyond maintenance and doing it without maxing out the credit card, over and over again.

    You have no freeking idea what you are talking about.
     
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  15. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's interesting that Rome never became a naval power.
    Certainly it copied Carthagian ships for the Punic War.
     
  16. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    Rome was the naval power of its time, by all means.
     
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  17. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    With Rome controlling all the shoreline
    the Mediterranean was a Roman pond.


    China on the other hand had a great ocean going navy
    China destroyed and decided all China needs is in China.



    POINT: The Germans are not by history & nature, a naval power.
    Given the best technology warships of their time, Germany did . . . .
    They could've sunk the Brit Navy at Jutland but, withdrew snatching a draw from
    the jaws of victory.
     
  18. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Caesar had a hard time getting his men to cross the English Channel when he
    planned on invading Britain. They were afraid of the water.
     
  19. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    I think you are right.
    Merkel's speech in Davos was a indicator.
     
  20. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    Germany was never a military naval power, but it was quiet a trade naval power, which at times used naval military power, which was considered a serious waste of money.
    It is called Hanse.
    I am Hanse.
     
  21. m2catter

    m2catter Well-Known Member

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    Without the German scientists (deported in 1945 straight after the war) you Americans would still build sand castles and dreaming of flying to the moon, you were that much behind. Ups, sorry for speaking the truth.....
    I think maybe Trump isn't that bad after all, while ruining every foreign relationship. Now they will rise again, and one day the world might become a more peaceful place without the war hungry and delusions of grandeur's USA....
     
  22. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yet so few, potent, GERMAN Scientist
    helped deliver to :flagus: "The Bomb".
    Rocketry would follow as would jet technology.

    The German Culture, Nation, etc. could not relate.
    Like German Naval command and strategy
    and the best battleships on the seas.



    I gave you the printed lyrics to help you "get it".
    Germany was too backward to benefit from their resources
    such as.

    "da Jews".
     
  23. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    Well yes, Germany cut its defense spending after the demise of the Soviet Union. Everybody in Europe did.
    My home town, ankering the Fulda Gap, had 5 tank and anti tank and infantry garrisons. Over 20,000 soldiers. There is just 1 left with a few thousand soldiers. No need, Same for the town of Fulda, same everywhere. The US left, the Brits left, everybody left. 100s of thousand soldiers left, they were not needed anymore.
    Germany did not need anymore 400,000 soldiers and 1000 tanks an what ever.
    The money saved did not go in welfare giveaways, it went into East Germany. Kanzler Schroeder, made the most sever overhaul of the German welfare system, stream lined it, cut it, because Germany had to get lean, it had to absorb East Germany.
    That's were the peace dividend was spent and Germany nearly went bankrupt doing so, over 100% of GDP in debt.
    I call any Country with such debt bankrupt.

    So lets put it in perspective, Germany absorbed East Germany and brought it up to snuff, from 3rd world to 1st world, reformed its social systems, so that they can provide excellent service and make a profit, in good times on the side, in the billions, spends billions each year on its first class infrastructure and plans to spend more, even more, is rebuilding its military, slow, yes, its done the German way, when they are done it works. Germany has its screw ups like the Berlin airport.
    But the great difference to the US, all Government entities, from City, to County to State to the Federal, social systems and so on are profitable, they have surpluses, in the billions, year after year.
    Its the law, only in a economical emergency, they can spent 3% more than what is coming in.
    The famous " Schwarze Null", black zero. They are sitting on so much money, that they have no fricking idea how to spent it. The deficit went below 60% of GDP, paid off debt and still they float in cash, real cash, billions.
    The US, over 100% in debt, despite a very good economy, trillions added every year, debt is rising.
    Infrastructure crumbling, no future vision on a advanced infrastructure. Absorb Mexico, which is a 2nd world country, make it a 1st world country, time line 10 years, or to be nice 20 years.
    Absorb all Mexicans into the social system with out any additional cost to anybody, make SSI and Medicare and Medicaid profitable and after Mexico becomes a 1 world State of the US with, high speed trains, interstates, communication systems, sewer and water, everything up to snuff, not US standards, but German standards and than give the US 10 years to recover and start making a profit, from the cities to the communities to the Sates and the Federales.
    Sounds like science fiction, it is, because the US is so fricking broke, it can not fix a bridge, in the middle of nowhere.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2020
  24. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    The legendary prince of the Federated Suns?
     
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  25. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    That's a considerable exaggeration. The U.S. fixes thousands of bridges across the country every year. And I guess you didn't know but about one third of U.S. states have balanced budgets every year. They are required to under their constitutions. I live in one of them and in a typical year we actually run at a small profit (just in case).
     

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