Prosecutors charge parents of Michigan school shooting suspect

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Bowerbird, Dec 3, 2021.

  1. Pants

    Pants Well-Known Member

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    Yep, its one of the most powerful commentaries on what is happening in the US. We say we want kids to just be kids, but that isn't possible when they have to do these drills.
     
  2. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Good points. My only disagreement is I believe we certainly can teach children the same as in past generations. I don’t think we can use change as an excuse for bad behavior by parents or children. To do so is to guarantee a rapid degeneration into a society of chaos and violence with no self restraint or responsibility. I don’t want to see that.

    Yes, I certainly agree with rights comes responsibility. But not only when it comes to firearms storage. The biggest responsibility is the raising of children for those who choose to have them. Today the parent even has the right of preemptive strike by aborting children they don’t intend to parent.

    Once the choice to have the child is made and the preemptive strike option is not taken, there are numerous responsibilities anti gunners don’t want to recognize. They are likely completely unaware they even exist in some cases. For example, the parent has the responsibility for the child’s general health, including diet and exercise—which have PROFOUND effects on propensity to violence of all kinds, including firearms violence. Yet even self proclaimed healthcare experts in this thread are unaware of these factors in violence, focusing only on inanimate objects. You mentioned others including socializing the child and teaching them how to interact with adults. Unfortunately, most who are opposed to firearms in society are much more narrow minded than you are—you understand parenting is a system—not just locking up guns from little hellions created by the parent.
     
  3. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not to change topics, but do you think this is a case where parents can be charged for their handling of their children?

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/defiant-california-parents-send-child-020757319.html

    I suspect somebody will test drive a case like this into court someday...
     
  4. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    SNIP
    Authorities determined James Crumbley's semi-automatic handgun was stored unlocked in a drawer in his bedroom, McDonald said.
    ENDSNIP

    They're not required to put their evidence in the public view at this time.. Just because YOU don't know the details doesn't mean THEY don't.

    Also, a "locked drawer" is highly unlikely to be a major impediment to a disturbed teenager....

    But it's moot, since as you point out, it's not a requirement to lock in Michigan...so perhaps another long-term goal of these charges.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2021
  5. Joe knows

    Joe knows Well-Known Member

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    The defense claims the gun was locked. Not everyone can afford a safe. There also is no law that requires the gun to be locked so really the point is moot. However the burden of proof is on the prosecution. Until I see proof they are doing nothing other than making a claim that doesn’t even hold the backing of law.
     
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  6. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We agree that the locking point is moot... Funny that the defense would lead out with that though... as if it matters long term... the kid got THAT gun, that's not in dispute...

    Involuntary manslaughter seems to be a reach, but if any 2 parents ever deserved to be charged with crimes in a school shooting, these are them...

    I wish the Michigan prosecutor all the luck and hopefully they draw a serious judge...
     
  7. Joe knows

    Joe knows Well-Known Member

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    A serious judge goes off of the law and their is still no law these parents are accused of breaking. Not one.
     
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  8. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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  9. 19Crib

    19Crib Well-Known Member

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    The law is not on her side here. Plus, they are appear to be poor so she would not be able to use plan B - bankrupting them with weak charges.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2021
  10. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Uh yeah.. they are accused and charged with involuntary homicide.... it's sort of in the OP.

    If you think those charges are baseless, that's another story. But charged they are.

    I was going to ask a serious question about this situation, but I'll wait for a serious poster first...
     
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  11. Joe knows

    Joe knows Well-Known Member

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    Touché
     
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  12. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In the situation as described, there is a meeting at the school, with the student, school representative, and both parents. The school is recommending (near) immediate counselling for the student after discovery of a disturbing drawing. Presumably, the school doesn't know about the recent gun purchase and target practice, but does know about the ammo search. The parents refuse to take the student out of school, at least for the day.

    Question for you.... what are the schools options here?

    1. Return to class... this is what happened, since the parents bailed on their job... and that didn't turn out so well
    2. Call the police? Seems premature, since he hadn't actually committed a crime yet
    3. Keep him in the office the rest of the day? Sort of like detention? I guess this would have been the best move here, in hindsight.
    4. Anything else you can think of?? If you did option 3 (or even if the kid had left that day with his parents), how do you keep him out of school until he gets a clean bill of health from a counselor (which he probably wouldn't) How does a school enforce that?

    Since we now live in a world where PARENTS RIGHTS are the new RW platform, coming with those rights are the responsibilities to do the right thing when needed. Total failure here...
     
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  13. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    Seriously, why haven't Timothy Simpkins' family been charged with any crime?
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2021
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  14. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    I don’t know if any law was violated. I’m just too ignorant of that aspect. More important in my mind is the fact the parents set a bad example for their children. They sent the message other’s lives have less intrinsic value than your own. And that’s exactly the attitude and example that leads to little dudes who shoot up schools. So I see your post as being spot on topic.
     
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  15. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm going to assume the surrounding circumstances are different, unless you want to point out the parallels (outside of a school shooting)....
     
  16. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    Timothy Simpkins obtained a gun from his obviously-negligent family, and he used it in a school shooting.

    What possible circumstances would exonerate his family?
     
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  17. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    For somebody who claims ignorance on a topic, that's just about the perfect answer...

    If ignoring local health guidance on public school attendance isn't against some law, what's the point?

    Oh right.... for people who listen to health guidance... I keep forgetting about the vast majority of Americans...
     
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  18. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Any evidence he might be considering shooting students or have his parents ignore an imminent threat...

    Also, it's Texas... where laws go to die..
     
  19. HB Surfer

    HB Surfer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Black kid murders at school - Nothing to see here

    White kid murders at school - 24/7 coverage

    So transparent anymore. The desire to divide this nation is non-stop by our "Free Press".
     
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  20. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    The parents were obviously negligent in not securing the gun in their house. Why aren't they being charged?

    Because Texas? Is that your answer?
     
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  21. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    That just sounds bizarre to me.

    Consider...

    * The shooter was taken into custody.
    * The idiotic DNA donors fled, came back and were arrested on $1M ($500K each) bonds.

    Who in the world told the cops about the weapon in a "locked drawer"? Certainly the three whackadoodles arrested didn't.

    I posted elsewhere a link to an article that indicates his parents were called to the school and met with school officials a few hours before the shooting. Details haven't been released but I'm wondering if whatever that meeting was about set him off.
     
  22. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    That's not accurate but, even if it was, the white kids are going to get more lenient charges, more second chances, lesser fines and lesser sentences than any of the non-white people charged with similar crimes.

    Don't worry your pretty little head. The white kids will continue to get their privileges.
     
  23. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    Would you mind filling in the gaps? You ask some very good questions and I'd like to address them but I haven't had time to read up on this case.

    * What do you mean by "ammo search" in your first paragraph?
    * Has there been any information about how the school learned of the disturbing drawing? *Something* must lead to a search.
    * Was the shooter in custody at the time the parents fled? It sounds like he was but I'm not certain.

    There is a huge gap between a disturbing drawing and killing and wounding people a few hours later. And, even if his parents weren't irresponsible idiots and kept him out of school for one day, this incident probably would have happened whenever he returned to school.

    I'm hoping this case will lead to some solution giving school officials the authority to address this. For example, since his parents declined to take him home, maybe some kind of rule can allow school officials to engage Child Protective Services or Juvenile Law Enforcement to take him off the premises until the conditions for returning to school are met.

    I am aware they have metal detectors in schools in some of the really bad areas. Maybe this should be done everywhere (and it breaks my heart to even think of that being needed).
     
  24. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    I’m ignorant of law pertaining to this circumstance you presented. Guidance is not law no matter how much you wish it to be.

    Wouldn’t you rather live in a society where sick kids are kept home from school because they and their parents care about others than a society where they stay home to avoid prosecution?
     
  25. HurricaneDitka

    HurricaneDitka Well-Known Member

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    They might work to curb more mundane gang violence, but they don't really work to stop school shootings like this. In Red Lake, MN back in 2005 the school shooter just shot the guard manning the metal detector, a bit reminiscent of that scene from the Matrix.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2021
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