Seriously….. What would it take for a GOD to prove itself? (Part 2)

Okay....if "He" gave you the amazing debate insight to sway us non Christians, please use it on me by answering (Debating) a few things:

What does God say about all the other Gods and Religions?
What does God say about allowing humans to constantly revise "His" books?
What does God say about Evolution and the Cosmos?

"His" explanations would be very insightful.

 

Here's a simple question:

How can you worship a being that commanded the murder of children?

 

I'm guessing the answer he/she is going to avoid would be their moral compass is directed by a book and not through thinking and reasoning. Fear is their most prominent response to a threat (going to hell), and that fear trumps logical and critical reasoning. Notice how they've already levied the same threat against you in a earlier post. So, as we both already know their answer, we're unlikely to hear "I'm a fearful simpleton".

 

Its not my job, nor any interest of mine to sway your opinions, that is Gods job but if he finds a situation to use me to do that then all the better.

I think you know full well what the answers are to your questions so you do not need me to repeat what you already know.

Do you?

 

God brings the children to Heaven.

For all you know, and you don't, the children do not suffer at all.

The important thing is not what happens to us in this life but where we go when we do die, and we all will.

God promised you eternal life, he never promised you a fair life.

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You are more than welcome to not believe in God but you should not criticize those that do, that makes you look like the simpleton who is so miserable in life that he must try and tear down others to his level just so he has some company.

People hate what they fear and its obvious you fear Christianity.

 

As there are no viable or logical answers to the questions posed...no there is no reason I simply wished to present the opportunity for you to submit proof of your claim.

I got exactly what was expected.

 

Why is it you keep telling everyone who doesn't believe like you they are going to eternal torment. It could just as easily be you.

What is winning? According to religions only certain religions will make it to God, and then it is limited further within the religions as not all of the correct religious people will go to God.
Satan will have many times more souls than God, and Satan is never gone from existence. How is satan losing?

 

So it's okay to murder children because they go to Heaven?

 

Of course the same can be said if one follow's the wrong God, or follows the right God the wrong way.
Or if some of humanity has been tricked by Satan into thinking their words they follow actually came from the great deceiver of humans.

 

Thank you for stating the obvious.

I'm quite happy with my life, and I'm free to criticize who I like. If you don't like my message, ignore it or refute it, but after reading several of your posts I know exactly what I'm dealing with.

I certainly dislike organized religion, but I also dislike weeds in my yard, rainy days, and bird crap on my car after it's been washed. That doesn't mean I fear them. Christianity doesn't threaten me, right now at least, on any level.

 

Well let's turn it around then shall we?

Prove to me that God does not exist.

Let us see what you come up with.

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One would have to wonder why you are extolling such great effort to debunk it then and calling people that do believe in it things like simpletons.

 

Also a typical and expected reply.....when confronted, the religious tend to avoid answering through sideline and subterfuge.

One cannot prove a negative.

 

As I thought you response would be.

You expect everyone to prove it to you but you cannot do the same.

Look at it logically. If you do not believe in a God then what proof has led you to that conclusion?

Is it because you cannot see or hear him?

I expect you to quietly slip away now because you are about to be put to the ropes.

 

Very well...though I cannot "Prove" there is no God, I can explain why I do not believe:

1) Supposedly the primary source to show the Christian version as true is the Bible....which is easily shown as impossible in many areas.
2) There cannot be one (1) true God when there are hundreds believed to be true by millions.
3) Growing up Christian none of my prayers were ever answered.
4) As of yet it has not provided any physical evidence to anyone, anywhere after thousands of years.

The list can go on...but that is enough for me.

 

Thank you for admitting that and your reasons are valid although I can tell you my version of your arguments.

The Bible is a guideline for Christians which describes how they are supposed to act, the things they should strive for, and the historical account of their belief. It in no way is meant to prove or disprove anything, the proof a Christian finds comes from their relationship with God.

Another good point but we are told that the path is narrow for those who will actually get into Heaven but falling back on my other argument I would say that we simply do not know Gods total plan. There are many different cultures on the planet and its impossible to put them all under one umbrella so perhaps God is showing himself in different forms to the different cultures yet it is still him. This is a common theory among academic theologians. Judaism, Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism, Native American religions may all actually be following the same God but he is just presenting himself in culture specific ways. That would be a theory amongst many others that are out their to try and explain your concern.

God is not your personal dial-up service you know so perhaps your prayers were not valid, perhaps you were not walking with him closely enough for him to respond, perhaps he didn't think that what you were praying for was appropriate or necessary....many explanations for this but if you truly are a Christian then God will never give you more than you can handle. If you do become overwhelmed he will put you over his shoulder and carry you out of it, he has for me, but not always in the way you think or want.

God could appear tomorrow and let everyone know he exists but what would be the point of having faith then? Everyone would simply say, "well God is real so I guess I should become a Christian now to avoid hell", that is not what God wants. He wants you to come to him of your own freewill, not because you have no choice.

 

So...you want me to prove something does not exist that you know cannot be proven to even exist in the first place?

 

My dad passed on January 1, 1990. Bob Tate, was not "saved" by Christian standards.

I had already been fasting on the Jewish festival of Yom Kippur for about fifteen years or so by that time and I was thinking that hidden meaning in that Holy Day had enormous potential to alter the state of the dead....... who had not attained peace of mind.

At that same time I was beginning to read near death experience accounts and they soon proved to me that the "soul sleep" doctrine that I had believed in so strongly since I was a teenager was almost certainly terribly in error.

With this in mind certain statements by Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus..... made me really really really angry and disappointed......and I went through ten years of being so furious with G-d and H-s Messiah/ Moshiach that I often used four letter words as I was praying.


Matthew 22:14

Matthew 7:13

While I still believed in "soul sleep" I was OK with these verses but..... in the light of the couple of negative NDE accounts that I had read.......... I was becoming extremely disillusioned as to why somebody so brilliant as Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus would settle for such a terrible...… overall plan of salvation!

At that time....... I already suspected that time was not exactly limited to being one straight line......… So I went and volunteered to become some sort of "Yom Kippur goat" in the order of Barabbas/ Bar Abbas.......(who seemed to have been drafted into the role that he played)........... I offered to YHWH/ The G-d of Abraham/ Creator of heaven and earth who had sent Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus to play out the role of Passover Lamb........... to pay off the "guilt/ debt of Azazel" by coming back to earth an infinite number of times and getting anybody...… anywhere.... who G-d or Messiah Yeshua - Jesus felt might be impossible to bring back!?

I was figuring on getting Azazel to return to G-d first...… once his debt/ guilt was paid off...… and then go after the lost..... even in other time lines. I told G-d/ YHWH that if He wished..... he could send me back into the year when Adolf Hitler was two years old........ bump off Hitler's dad who had beaten him up pretty much every day when he was young....... G-d/ YHWH could arrange to hook me up with Hitler's mom....... I could raise the little guy..... and apply psychological principles that would virtually ensure that he would not become a sociopath.......and voila........ the holocaust would be prevented from even occurring...… So Korben....... I can empathize with your anger against YHWH/ The G-d of Abraham and/or H-s Moshiach...........(and.... I can even empathize with the name that you chose for this forum)!

 

Truly well said One Mind!

I have a challenge in mind for AboveAlpha that I believe will answer his question but........... it could take six centuries of his time , (assuming a combination of linear as well as branching time)?!

Here is some background info:

http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=400055&page=25&p=1064990436#post1064990436

"Off the Chart Universal and Multiversal Models."

....... You and I and AboveAlpha........ after we die again...… will spend at least some time in what has by many been termed The Void.

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/research15.html
The Void and the Near Death Experience.


Religious people will tell you that The Void..... is a terrible place..... and you should immediately move on past it into the higher levels......… They are partly correct in this..... and they are partly incorrect.............. I have reason to strongly suspect that The Void...… is one of the places from which a new time line could be initiated................ that would bring joy to the most emotional being/ beings/ Beings in the multiverse!

I would assume that investing a huge amount of effort........ over impossible to imagine long periods of time would make an intelligent life form more and more and more emotionally connected to what has been created..... guided..... formed..... mentored....... And conversely...… a being who has invested less effort....... over less time..... would be less emotionally connected to the created entities???!

http://www.politicalforum.com/relig...most-emotional-being-universe-multiverse.html

Could God the Father be the most emotional being in the universe/ multiverse?

 

Wow..... your signature is awesome One Mind!!!!

"Multiplicity is only apparent, in truth, there is only one mind..." Erwin Schrodinger

I am 99% certain that AboveAlpha will be impressed..... and encouraged by your words...… He is here partly to mentor many of us up to a higher level of understanding of the big picture.

I also got a little pissed with AA for a while there..... and wondered if he could be three to five geniuses working for some other agency than he claimed......… but then I tested him......… and he passed with flying colors...… then I tested him at a higher level....... and again he passed with flying colors......… so I concluded that Ossam's Razor applied to this situation meant that AA was very much as he claimed to be............… (probably with certain details altered to protect himself)....his family and friends....... and you and I as well!

 

Nope, you simply have to prove that the universe was created without the help of God.

According to you, that is real.

 

Despite your assertions, it requires little effort to write a 20 second post on my phone while I'm waiting in line at the grocery store. Is writing a simple paragraph a major ordeal for you?

 

I don't spend time in the grocery store sending messages to some sports forum about who the greatest baseball player was because I do not care about baseball so I am curious why you are spending so much time arguing about something you care nothing about.

Either you do care and are looking for answers or you have some desire to attack Christianity and those that follow it.

 

You're having an extremely difficult time keeping up with the most basic of conversations. You're either confusing me with another poster or you're having some sort of mental episode, because in the three posts I've written in the thread I've never mentioned anything about "not caring". I've actually said quite the opposite, as I said I dislike organized religion, which would imply some level of interest in the subject as would posting in this thread..And again, I've got around a minute and 30 seconds invested in writing you at this point. Is that "so much time", as you put it, in your world?

 

I have to admit if some being raised everyone from the dead that I ever knew and also gave me eternal life, I'd be pretty darn impressed and would have to throw atheism out the window in favor of fedeism. If he couldn't do that, I would have a hard time even going from atheism to deism. By definition, a deistic god would not do miracles or change the course of history. He would merely be a creator and observer. So not really sure how you get swayed from atheism to deism. I mean unless you die, and suddenly you are in another set of dimensions and still conscious. Then you would have to assume there was a creator.

 

No it isn't. The bible is a historical document of specific events. For it to be true, it would require biblical infallibility and biblical inerrancy. Google those if you don't have a deep understanding of what they are.

Josephus
Against Apion, Book 1, Paragraph 8.

"For we have not an innumerable multitude of books among us, disagreeing from and contradicting one another, [as the Greeks have,] but only twenty-two books, which contain the records of all the past times; which are justly believed to be divine; and of them five belong to Moses, which contain his laws and the traditions of the origin of mankind till his death. This interval of time was little short of three thousand years; but as to the time from the death of Moses till the reign of Artaxerxes king of Persia, who reigned after Xerxes, the prophets, who were after Moses, wrote down what was done in their times in thirteen books. The remaining four books contain hymns to God, and precepts for the conduct of human life. It is true, our history hath been written since Artaxerxes very particularly, but hath not been esteemed of the like authority with the former by our forefathers, because there hath not been an exact succession of prophets since that time; and how firmly we have given credit to these books of our own nation is evident by what we do; for during so many ages as have already passed, no one has been so bold as either to add any thing to them, to take any thing from them, or to make any change in them; but it is become natural to all Jews immediately, and from their very birth, to esteem these books to contain Divine doctrines, and to persist in them, and, if occasion be willingly to die for them."