Seriously….. What would it take for a GOD to prove itself? (Part 2)

The bible was not written by one or more gods. It was written by humans. Sheep herders to be exact. Sheep herders that thought the earth was flat, was the center of the solar system, was the center of the universe, and in fact was the proud owner of a sun that was the only star in that universe. All those twinkling lights we know to be stars, planets, and deep space objects - those morons thought those were rips in the fabric the separated heaven from earth. Rips in fabric and flat planets. I am not sure I want to consider anything those morons said to be the infallible and inerrant word of a creator capable of designing and making entire universes.

 

Some sort of invisible creator actually told you that? Personally? Can you describe how this happened? Dates, times, your surroundings, witnesses, a transcript of the conversation, what the being looked / sounded / smelled like, etc.

 

Have you parted any seas? Walked on water? Sent a plague that killed first-born children? Frogs? Locusts? Created a flood that covered the entire planet in water from pole to pole?

 

I have seen simpletons think free govt phones are obamaphones, like he came up with the idea during the Reagan admin. So there is truth in his statement.

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Simpletons, huh!!

 

Why do you want to know?

Are you actually interested or just looking for an argument?

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Do you think they wrote it on their own or do you think they wrote what God wanted them to write?

lol

 

Again...you cannot prove a negative. The supposition of an unknown entity of unimaginable power deciding one day to get creative is not worthy of study.

 

I am always interested in hearing stories from people that believe they actually saw a god or an angel.

I personally think they just wrote what they wanted. Or, I should say they were very powerful and wrote what they felt would help them control masses and push a certain dogma into the community. I can prove many places where the old testament was fallible and errant. Having been raised Jewish I have spent less time studying the new testament; but I have studied it. I have spent a great deal of time reading the books written by people who spent their whole lives devoted to researching these apocrypha (whether canonized or not). People like Josephus, Schonfeld, Meyer, Tabor (in fact Jim Tabor is a friend of a friend), Asimov, and probably 20 or 30 other authors you never heard of.

 

I did not ask you to prove God, I asked you to prove that the universe was created naturally.

So go ahead and tell us how it was done.

 

Science has not "Proven" how our universe formed...see, we use these thingys called theories and generally do not claim to "Know" something as absolute. There is no blind faith component to the scientific principle so proving a thing is usually not important. However, not that it is likel;y you have not heard of it, or actually wish to learn this might help:
"The broadly accepted theory for the origin and evolution of our universe is the Big Bang model, which states that the universe began as an incredibly hot, dense point roughly 13.7 billion years ago."
http://www.space.com/13320-big-bang-universe-10-steps-explainer.html

 

So because the science has not been proven you must accept the theory that it may have been God who did it.

Correct?

 

No...you do not understand the concept of theory. We begin with hypothesis and attempt through study and experimentation to show an idea (hypothesis) as worthy of further study. When we have accepted the hypothesis as useful and accurate, it becomes theory and is very deeply studies in multiple ways.

The "God" hypothesis cannot be further studied due to the complete lack of verifiable data and invisible nature of both observable reality and agreed upon fabrication of documentation.

 

incorrect. there would be, presumably, trillions of other possible 'causes' of our universe. it's beyond absurd to leap to the certain conclusion that not only was it all done by a deity, but that it was done by a very specific (and coincidentally the very deity you were raised on) god.

 

If you believe God is real then you know that everything in the Bible is exactly the way he wants it.

If you do not believe in God then the Bible does not matter anyways.

There really is nothing to debate.

You cannot and will never, understand Christianity if you look at it from an academic perspective.

 

There are plenty of ancient writings that would qualify as enough evidence to support a theory.

There are plenty of eyewitness accounts of miracles to support a theory.

I think you are simply choosing to dismiss the possibility.

Let me ask you this.

Is there enough evidence to support a theory of aliens having visited our planet?

 

Try as I might, I cannot see any other causes of the creation of the universe other than either natural or coming from a deity.

Care to share some of them with me?

 

Many people believe in God and have very little use for the bible. At least most of it. Jews and muslims come to mind. Hindus as well.

And no one knows who inspired people to write about El, Elohim, YVWH, and all the other jewish names for God.

 

As of yet no....thus do we have the Ancient Aliens TV show rather than actual scientific investigation. MUFON uses the scientific principal as a basis for investigation but relies primarily on expressive and imaginative extrapolation which does not allow for advancement to accepted theory.

 

Things and events that cannot be explained scientifically have pretty much been the basis for belief in God since the concept of a God was imagined. As science explains more and more the rational for the concept of a God has to keep moving to maintain viability.

 

I probably said this in the other thread

If God can be proven to exist then he/she cannot be God. This is sort of the reverse of Anselm's argument that God's existence follows from our positing his existence but in theory, not practice.

In order to prove something exists we must understand what it is and God, necessarily, transcends understanding

Existence or nonexistence misses the point of religion anyway, which is that Faith is necessary to us. Even the complete atheist believes in something, Science or atheism or something, otherwise you have no basis for saying anything about the world around you and that is why you are here.

 

Congratulations for congratulating yourself.

reva

 

You misunderstand me. I do not think "thought" can grasp something like that, if it exists. I think it is far beyond thought. But yet it is the nature of man, using his brain, to create images off all things. As long as you know what you are doing, and that the image is not the thing it refers to, and there is a possibility that something like we are talking about cannot even have an image created of it....perhaps that is as far as intelligence can go.

But here is the deal. Can the mind, when thought is utterly silent, sense the OTHER? Not as an image created by the brain. But just catch a perfume of something beyond all thought? Some people for thousands of years have said yes. Of course this is only experienced once ordinary consciousness comes back, that is, when thought is once again aware of itself. One gets a feeling of something sacred in higdsight, from that state of mind that is completely silent, and it also seems to order the mind, the mind of thought. There is something about those that have periodic silent minds that is extremely healthy for lack of a better term. Mentally healthy. It seems to be a fountain of something that operates outside of thought awareness.

 

Both science and religion use faith as a basis to explain certain events. A couple of examples of these faith based science created 'beasts' are the theoretical constructs/ 'critters' that populate a Quantum Serengeti such as electrons, quarks, muons, bosons etc. Some of the more exotic creatures are virtual pairs and live in the quantum zoo ie the quantum foam. These too are simply fabrications and guesses that are made to fit the evidence of an event. The truly faith based creations of science are whats known as dark matter and dark energy. Also in some regions of deep space gravity instead of being an attractant repels. The deep space galaxies and objects should be slowing from the big bang, however, they are speeding up!

So in addition to the twin fantastic fabrications that are repelling gravity there is another conundrum. Scientists are is missing over 95% of the mass in the universe needed to explain the gravitational motions of deep space objects! so instead of 'God did it' science makes up its own mythological beasts that fits the evidence, based on FAITH THAT SCIENCE WILL ONE DAY VINDICATE THAT FAITH'. In one way scientific mythological fabrications are more difficult to beleive than religious claims is that the scientific 'fabrications' violate not only the scientific method of discovery they actually violate the very rules of physics that science is based on! I don't despise science, some of our people are better off because of science, I love science, and many of my hobbies are science based. However I don't like science being used as a near God that most of the world bases their reality on. It has a history of being wrong. So put science in its place because its far from perfect and is having difficulty to explain the macro natural world it finds itself in.

reva

 

That may be true, but when one refers to God in these forums, they are most of the time referring to the biblical entity.

 

Although the actual evidence may be weak there is enough to postulate a theory in lieu of any other conclusive scientific evidence.

That was the point.

When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. – Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

If someone can explain to me how the universe simply came to be from complete nothingness simply on its own then I am all ears.

 

Ancient Aliens have enough evidence to postulate hypothesis...nothing more, thus it remains as much. If indeed there was useable evidence to examine it would eventually become theory. Science has been working for quite some time on answering your question and worked beyond hypothesis to theory with the big bang theory, it is doubtful it will ever be proven beyond a doubt or to your satisfaction.