To my straight friends

Me....

 

Me too!!

 

Indeed

 

I happen to believe it is necessary that humans revere our natural state and shun perversions of it. I in no way am condoning mistreatment of homosexuals. I just believe we should shun their sexual preference, no different than shunning adultery, incest or pedophilia.

 

No, adultery is not fine. Lusting is not fine. Coveting is not fine. Homosexuality is not fine. Since when am I cherry picking? I'm happily married to my high school sweetheart of 32 years.

 

Well if you think it's okay for your children to be attracted to the opposite sex that means they lust after them. As do you. And that is adultery.

The point is, it is hypocritical to permit these things while disallowing others because others are sins. We are all sinners. That is what Christ did all that suffering and dying for.

You would disallow it for no other reason than personal aversion.

 

Me three.. I am a gay man, in no way am I less of a man than any other on this board.

 

Congrats! Really.

Has the Supreme Court ruling legalizing same sex marriages significantly damaged your marriage?

 

To myself and millions of others, the natural state includes a sexual orientation which you reject as being "natural". That you see it as a perversion is an offensive and unnecessary thing to us.

The deep difficulty is knowing that we cannot alter your view of reality, in the end.

And I will grant, that is some (the only) consolation I see in your overall position. It would be disingenuous to say however, that the view you hold does not place some implied 'space' between yourself and every person who happens to be other than 'heterosexual'. I've always found human relations to be better, when such a space can be relaxed or disregarded altogether.

And thus, a barrier/distance (I just mentioned) I view as being unnecessary. Homosexuality is no 'crime' and produces no victims. Why compare it to those other things at all?

Even so, I'm older and mature enough to not reject you as a human being, because of your view/mindset; I know that people can/do see reality in unique ways. Perhaps in a proper friendship or familial relationship... love would bridge the distance I feel between I and yourself (I've experienced that before). And ultimately, I do hope that is possible with many.

 

You, with the teen boy in your avatar?

 

Must seculars always resort to the absurd to feebly attempt to defend their positions? Yes, we are all sinners, that does not justify condoning sins. It is natural for males and females to attract, court and marry in monogamous relationships. Homosexuality is unnatural and a sin.

My job as a father was first to raise natural productive healthy members of society. I achieved this. The fewer humans who resist perversions of society the more perverted it will get. I respect all decent humans, including homosexuals, just not their perversion.

 

Official recognition of human perversions does not promote a healthy human society. Does what two individuals do in their own home bother me? No.

 

I have three granddaughters I love dearly. They will not see their grandfather ever accept homosexuality as normal human behavior. I care about the world they will have to raise their children. I strictly promote our species natural human state which is clearly male/female. If that offends, so beit. Beyond this, I wish every human a long happy life aside from our many challenges.

 

Why would they do that?

They were raised within a heterosexual environment with clearly defined masculine and feminine roles.

If for some reason one of our children wanted to try deviant sex, I would get them the help they need much like if they were a drug addict or any other negative behavior.

 

Once a person says their reasoning is "the Bible say so" discussion and debate has ended. Continuing is as pointless as debating Jehovah's Witness teens at your door doing little more than if they were chanting Hari Krishna at you.

Yes, it can be pointed out there is no such of ranting against fornication, adultery and divorce not authorized in the Bible because the majority of Christians involve in those sins. Nor pointing out the Bible says give your wealth to the poor - and who said that was Jesus himself - and virtually no Christians including on this forum have done so. But they will never rant against the sins committed by people of their own religion and their own churches.

And, of course, there is the claim "your kids should be like mine including heterosexual" too. Yet if I point out homosexual young adults who are astonishingly successful AND beneficial to society - far MORE than their adult kids - they'll just revert back to citing the Bible with words like "perversion" and "abomination."

"I'm better than THOSE other people" mindset is the #1 way people claim they are superior people, since they do not have actual measures of success to prove that superiority in any tangible terms. Instead, the claim their religion, race, ethnicity, citizenship, sexuality, gender etc is what makes them superior - meaning they only have a superior self ego covering for their lack of success.

 

The most hated verses in the Bible by Christians who rant against homosexuals are words of Jesus himself:

Luke 6:42
"How can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,' when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."

NOTHING is more repulsive of words in the Bible than that verse to the Christians on this forum bragging of their superior morality and condemning homosexuals.

Who do are they really judging? They are actually passing judge upon themselves.

Romans 2:1
You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.

They are not condemning homosexuals to hell. They are condemning themselves to hell.

Or, simpler terms, many Christians not only don't believe the Bible, they hate the Bible and hate what Jesus himself actually said most of all. Jesus never spoke against homosexuality. But he absolutely spoke against the conduct of some Christians on this forum.

 

I'm a bachelor and never had children.

But if I had been a father my kids would know of my tolerance for alternate lifestyles. Therefore, if any of them were gay it would make no difference to me.

 

You are speaking from either religious belief or outright ignorance.

You are standing 'away' from reality, as I see it.

 

It is unfortunate how many parents condition being their childrens' parents on the condition that the child be mini-mes of their parents. That unless they share the same visions, goals, values, life style, morality, and in so many other ways demand they be dominated clones the parents will both reject and condemn them.

As we see, many parents have piles of slogans to claim as proof they are right, which none of those slogans actually give reason to reject their children and only reason why they disagree with their children. They can't - or rather in ego and power tripping won't - see the difference between differences of view points and personality - versus emotional and often economic extortion to force submission.

Why this is so wrong is that it won't be those parents who live the consequences of the parents's demands, but their children. So even after ceasing to pay for and house their children who have left as adults responsible for their own lives, own success and own happiness, they still demand total control over their children as a condition of being their parent. Those parents demand their children live and suffer the consequences of decisions still made by the parents - with no risk to the parents themselves at all.

And as we so often are reading, this includes declaring that if children do not share their religion to the finest detail, they will proactively severe from and condemn their own children. With parents like that, who needs enemies?

I think it was Dr. Phil who said that parents and relatives are the best allies or worst enemies a person can have. Unfortunately, many children as adults come to learn their parents and relatives are their enemy because those parents and relatives want to be their enemies.

 

I suppose we should be polite to people who tell other people "I'm superior to you because you are evil and perverted" and "My kids are superior to your kids because your kids are evil and perverted."

Or at least forum rules require us to act civil about it, despite the deep personal insult of such messages.

?

 

And I'm sure people had grandparents who would never accept automobiles too. Old people not accepting anything new or different likely isn't that rare, nor is old people ranting against young people being immoral and of wrong behavior.

I have a copy of a 1892 encylopedia of proper social behavior and conduct. It is hundreds of pages long. I bet you severely violation those rules morning, noon and night in crude, rude and uncivilized behavior in the eyes of many parents of that era too. Such is the nature of OLD people - regardless of their calendar year age. But it is everyone's right to be old in mind and everyone becomes old eventually. I suspect every generation has lamented what's wrong with the younger generation.

 

Yeah, liking younger mates isn't a crime.

 

I am not a "secular" I'm Christian.

You are justifying sin by saying it's natural, btw homosexuality is natural for homosexuals, but that isn't relevant. It's natural to be selfish our nature is sinful.

Condoning sin by saying it's natural, is still condoning sin.

Unless they were homosexual, then they don't get to be productive members of society because you have hang ups.

Good for you, your children are lucky to have a devoted father.

Why should humans resist their natural inclinations because a few misguided zealots think it's perverted?

As most people tend to do, I just don't know why such a devoted father would go out of his way to shame their child into agreement.

 

You got it right, in my view!!

 

Who are you to question my heterosexual immersion as well as the heterosexual immersion of my children?

You have your belief without any medical test at all that one is "born homosexual"

I do not share that belief.

If we'd exposed our sons to girly-men or our daughters to butch-girls then yes, there could be a chance that they would have thought that lifestyle to be OK and given it a try. If that had happened, then we would have sought the necessary counseling so they could get past it much like one helps drug and alcohol addicts