To my straight friends

I'm another human being who thinks/believes you are wrong and will say so. That's fair. What wouldn't be right, is if I sought to alter your life by imposing my opposition to your views.

I think you have no proof that people are NOT born with at least 'some' inclination toward being homosexual. And the bulk of most credible science (so far), suggests that sexual orientation is certainly not a "choice"... also that it is even harmful to try altering a person's sexual orientation. You can teach a person to play certain gender or sexual rolls... but there is no proof that their sexual-orientation (attractions) can be altered.

And I don't buy the notion that you can do a damned thing about changing a person's sexual-orientation. So, we disagree and I'll say so adamantly.

Anyone can be taught/conditioned (indoctrinated) to be masculine/feminine, but that is role-playing... not "sexual-orientation".
Do you understand the DIFFERENCE?! (It doesn't seem as though you do.)

You really don't understand human sexuality, as far as I can tell.

I'm certain that I won't convince you that you are in error here. So be it.

 

I am going to ask you again, no doubt you will ignore the question as you systematically have, proving that you can't support your claims.

I digress.

Why would there be medical evidence for something that isn't medical?

If you are saying the only reason you aren't gay is because you weren't in proximity to gay people, you aren't straight.

 

He insists acts influence thought. That you aren't attracted to somebody until after you have sex with them.

I don't buy for a moment that he actually believes this, I don't get why he thinks it's a good argument.

 

one is not a murderer unless one actually commits the act

One is not born a murderer nor is one born wanting gay-sex

 

Gene researchers disagree with you - on everything:

So it seems there are genes that increase the likelihood - but ultimately many factors cumulate.
You have no idea about any topic you speak on, do you?

One is homosexual if they are only attracted to the same sex, bisexual if attracted to both sexes, and heterosexual if only attracted to the opposite sex. No action is ever required.

 

His view is primarily delusional. I don't think he realizes that millions upon millions of people have struggled with their sexual-orientation, and have considered his mindset/approach, more seriously (even for decades of their lives) than he could likely imagine.

I've met and known enough people on the (down-low), hiding or repressing their sexuality... to know his thinking is very foolish.

 

Legally, that is true. Spiritually, you are VERY incorrect. 'Anger' is enough to make one guilty of murder, in the spiritual sense, according to the Bible. And more toward human sexuality... lust is enough to convict one of the sin of 'fornication' or 'adultery'. And surely, there are hundreds of millions of such "sinners" living with/about us day in and day out. Essentially ALL of us.

We are all born with the potential to be less than perfect or absolutely 'holy'. It is beyond interesting that YOU don't seem to realize and accept the same.

What you are communicating to me, is just plain foolishness.

 

Of course... some people's views/answers aren't based upon anything that is reasonably scientific. I mean, I'm no scientist myself, so I don't expect everyone to pull a Neil deGrasse Tyson as they elaborate... but I DO expect more than mere opinion and some biblical beliefs to be backing what they say. That is, it helps somewhat to keep at least one foot grounded in 'reality'.

Thank you. That is where we are scientifically. And while science doesn't answer 'everything' right now... it does a far better job than mere personal opinion and religious belief ever has.

 

Pretty sure my eldest daughter is gay...whenever she decides to say something I will tell her I love her and life will go on. Its not really my business unless she might get pregnant.

 

That's very sane and reasonable.

 

Lol you ignored the question as predicted.

I asked you why you would need medical proof for something that isn't medical.

You blather nonsense that doesn't even form an argument.

Why are you do scared to answer the question? Why evade it at every chance? Is it because your claims are dishonest and you know it?

I have you on the run little guy. The house of cards that is your logic is collapsing.

Please don't stop posting.

 

He negates the fact that attraction informs action. He is not at all reasonable with debate. Everybody knows the research. He is attempting to render that argument pointless by saying action informs attraction. Because you can't really argue against it without studies proving to the contrary. Saying what he is saying is the only reason people fornicate with sheep is because they did it once and liked it. The only reason people have sexual intercourse at all because they did it once and liked it. This is absolutely absurd. It is an instinct to mate, to be attracted to sex. That drives the act.

His argument is beyond absurd. I don't take him seriously, I mock him. When you don't take absurd things seriously they aren't dangerous.

He rejects the concept of attraction because of this evidence.

We aren't arguing against a competent argument. We are arguing against illogical nonsense.

A fact he knows but instead of conceding that point pretends there is no such thing as attraction. Or pretends it doesn't inform actions.

The word absurd doesn't really come close to describing this. It's deliberately dishonest.

You know what it sounds like to me? Me before I accepted my sexuality. "If I don't have sex with people of the same sex than I'm not gay. No matter how attracted to the same sex I really am, I'm not gay." It's really called the third and fourth stages of grief. Bargaining and denial.

I would go as far to say it's a mental illness.

The best thing for him is to hear that if you are attracted to the same sex you are either bisexual or gay, and you can either accept it or run from it. But only one ccourse leads to peace.

 

It sounds a lot like me before I accepted my sexuality. Perhaps it's basic simple denial that is outwardly projected. Look at his post history, nearly everything he posts about is homosexuality, he reads gay publications more than I do.

Yes When you are struggling with your own sexuality you tend to lose sight of the rest of the world.

I don't doubt for a moment that he is gay and deeply struggling with it himself. He sounds exactly like I did a few years ago.

All you can really do for people going through this is explain first that there is nothing wrong with it, and second that religion is a man made thing. And you can choose any one you wish.

Hopefully he will grow a little and be at peace.

Clutching onto something you wish was real is never that enlightening. But the decision to let go can only be his.

If I could find those old forums I posted on back then you'd think it was a younger sec.

 

I agree with all of the above. That's pretty much my story too.

Being a self-hating, homophobic gay man was a reality for me; and have met a lot of people like that in my lifetime. It surely didn't turn me 'straight' to be like that. My true sexuality was largely repressed.

I could always 'pretend' to be 'straight' (role play)... but as I later found out (via depression) that was not a healthy thing to do. Once I fully accepted that I wasn't 'heterosexual' (and couldn't be), it was like a fog/weight was lifted off of my entire life.

 

Yeah, that was how I felt about it too.

 

speculation is a wonderful thing and what you reach for when you lack actual proof.

I understand that for some reason, it's important to you to believe that you were born wanting to live the gay-lifestyle as opposed to having chosen it.

Why is it that important to you?

Until such time as you ask govt to misrepresent the chosen sex life as more than it is, you harm nobody except yourself and sex partners by living that lifestyle. Why is it so important to want to believe that you were born wanting that lifestyle?

Being Christian, I understand faith but would never assert that I can give to you bonafide physical proof that God exists. I simply believe. Is that what it is with you and the homosexual lifestyle? If it's faith, then why can't you let others have their belief much like Christians do with atheists?

I'm curious

 

So did Jared from Subway. A lot younger. Thanks for proving what everyone says.

 

I wouldn't have any reaction.

 

I have three children at or just about at middle school age.

We've touched on gay topics already, as they've heard other kids talking about it at school, using the slurs, etc etc. My wife and I don't make a point of talking about gay people as if they are some separate species that still deserve respect. We are clear and firm that there is no effective difference at all, that being gay changes absolutely nothing with how you should treat a person, both to their face and behind their backs. We put it on the list of several other factors that also don't warrant separate or unique treatment. None of this nonsense about sin or religion or the other mind tricks humans use on themselves. All that matters is, that person is a person. That's all that matters, ever. Unless they are hurting others, your feelings about who that person is don't justify you acting like an ass. My children know that, and I have not yet had a need to come down on any of them for doing otherwise. I can't speak for who my children are when they are alone with their friends, and I don't expect to have control over that, but they have been told repeatedly for years that it is actions that matter. They can believe whatever they want to believe about anything, and I will never try to stop them from that. But they know darn well the difference between thoughts about something and actions.

So if one or even all of my children came out as gay, it really wouldn't change anything. Anyone in my community that would be put off or repulsed by such a thing I absolutely want nothing to do with anyway, just like I want nothing to do with racists or sexists, so I'm not worried about being "shamed". And religion never worked on me so I don't have that whole agenda to muddy up the waters with nonsense either.

 

I have never once said I was born homosexual, I know what gender I was attracted to the first time I realized what attraction was - it has never changed. I have never had anyone I know indicate they chose their orentation - the only people who make that clam are anonymous posters online. Science does have some interesting working hypothesis and reaserch that looks like homosexuality may be at least partially due to hormonal elements in the womb.

My lifestyle is fairly safe - monogamous relationship for 6 years. No drug use (besides coffee), active, good eating habits, secure employment and few stressors. The fact that you believe I am hurting myself and my partner is devoid of any logic or reasoning. Considering addopting a family friends (unwanted) child. The current biggest detriment to my life is how the law views homosexuals and that is changing rapidly so it is becoming less of a concern.

The issue with some "Christians" is not their faith - it is their actions.

I answered your question so I have a single question for you:

Why is it so important for you to believe sexual orentation is chosen?

 

Why would I care, as long as they are happy?

It's not up to me to dictate who my kids feel attracted to, or fall in love with.

 

What possible difference does it make whether it's 'born' or 'chosen'?

In a free society, should people not be free to be who they feel that they are, or feel that they want to be, regardless of whether it is born in them or chosen (or some combination of both)?

Freedom and acceptance are two parts of the same thing - one cannot exist without the other. If people are not free to choose and be accepted regardless of their choices, then they are not living in a free society.

The whole 'nature versus nurture' argument is a complete red herring in the context of how sexual orientation should be considered within society.

 

I completely agree, but many argue orientation is a choice to justify denying rights and equal opportunity while at the same time demanding their choice (religions affiliation) be given ultimate protection and exception. It's a strange situation honestly.

 

Not that young.

 

Sure man.