Trump promises border wall 'soon, way ahead of schedule'

This must have been what Nancy was talking about when she said he had created no jobs. A job is a job, government or private both will put food on the table and a roof overhead.

Wasn't the total hire suppose to be around 10,000, if the hire is 5,000 that is a good start.

 

No we are building the wall because of the problem occurring right now. There are illegals coming over right now. Which justifies the wall. This is an objective truth.

More may be leaving but many are still coming.

Again, you may not agree, but it's still justified.

 

Yes; build a 2000 mile-long, 20-foot wall for $20 billion and someone will be selling 21-foot ladders for $20. Genius move Donnie!

 

It is NOT an objective truth that the current traffic at the border justifies building a wall.

The wall is hugely expensive.

The current solution IS preventing the number of undocumented aliens from increasing in America.

There ARE other methods of reducing the number who want to come and stay - the wall is just the most expensive way. There is NO indication that it is the least expensive way.

Remember that almost 50% of those who have been here without papers came LEGALLY, but Visas, and then overstayed - so, the wall can't possibly slow more than about half, and it does nothing for other borders.

 

So, try to make a justification based on that.

Here's what you have to contend with:

- the number here isn't growing. So, current measures have proven to be adequate.

- the wall is far more expensive than other solutions to the same problem.

- the wall doesn't answer the fact that nearly half of those here did not come by running the border. Instead, they came by visa and then overstayed.


OK, go for it -

 

It absolutely justifies the wall. It's no more expensive than the money we give to illegals through public programs they use for free including health care. So the cost is a moot point. It's absolutely a justification. You just don't think it's "enough". But nonetheless, the justification is there.

 

Current measures have not proven to be adequate, as the number grew to in the millions under current time measures.

The wall is less expensive than the money we have spent on them already, and will continue to do so.

Many still come illegally across the border. Just beca7all don't is not an argument against it.

There. Answered.

 

False.

The number of undocumented aliens in the US stopped growing in 2008, and has remained essentially constant since then. That is, there has been no growth.

You can't justify the wall based on those already here. The wall doesn't offset the cost of those here.

You can come up with a cost per undocumented alien. But, the wall can only stop NEW arrivals, and that number is zero.


And, as I pointed out there are other ways for aliens to arrive besides running the border. So, even if the number of aliens were to start to grow, it's not clear that a wall would help that.

AND, there are cheaper ways to deter those who want to come here - for example, e-verify and visa system changes as have been proposed and passed through the Senate.

 

No, the number grew under the measures used during the administrations PRIOR to the Obama administration.

Since 2008, the number of undocumented aliens has been essentially flat - that is, no growth.

Once source:
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/03/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/

 

Which genuinely does not matter. As they are still coming, particularly the bad ones. The wall is still justified under that alone.

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No I'm justifying it based on those who are coming over everyday. On those who are getting deported and will inevitably try again.

This is the justification. It is an objective truth. You can disagree and say it's not wnough, but it exists nonetheless.

E verify will not stop them from crossing. A wall will. Money is a non issue as its less than we spend on them. It will pay for itself in that manner.

 

You claim they are coming. However, the number here is not growing.

You seem to forget that we have a system in place today, and that it is preventing the only thing the wall can help with - growth in the number of undocumented aliens.

So, your argument fails. You aren't showing ANY numbers. You aren't citing ANY evidence. You're just saying, "We need to spend $40 BILLION tax dollars, even though I can't say why."

And, that is NOT a justification.




We have proof that when jobs are not available, people don't try to come.

The stop in illegal immigration came in 2008 as a response to our economic down turn. That dried up jobs. That end in the growth to illegal immigration did NOT come because of Bush or Obama policy. It came because of the crash.

E-verify would also dry up jobs for those without documentation, giving the same effect on immigration as we saw in 2008.

And, the cost of e-verify is small and affects those ALREADY HERE!!! And, that is something the wall can not do.

 

Just because the number is not growing is not an indicator that none are coming. Just that some are leaving as well. We have documentation on many still coming and som.e getting caught. Look it up lol. So the fact many are still coming IS factually justification. You can disagree but it IS.

You e verify can help but it's not a "solve all I win" card as it cann9t stop them from coming illegally over the border which is factually still happening. So yes, the wall can with proper patrol staffing therefore it's justofied.

The evidence on spending has been cited multiple times I do not believe you have not seen it and I'm posting from my phone. I expect you to do your own research without confirmation bias. Which you havent.

 

If the number isn't growing then the current system is working.

I agree that there are drug runners, etc., who cross both ways. But, the numbers in the US are staying constant and the length of stay of those here is GROWING - that is, a higher and higher percent of those here have been here more than, say, ten years. That is another sign of success - NOT of your "coming and going" idea.

If you want to make an argument, you have to justify spending $40Billion.

I don't see any numbers from you that could POSSIBLY justify that kind of expenditure.

So, you need to come up with numbers on how many more you think a wall would prevent from arriving, or some other measure you want to try for.

And, no, the right wing numbers on cost of those here is bogus, as it doesn't account for the work they are doing and over accounts for expenditures. But, that doesn't actually matter, as the number of those here isn't rising,.

 

We spend more than that on them as it is. So again money is moot. Deport,build a wall, get rid of sanctuary cities, use e verify if you wish, etc. It all has a place.

The fact you acknowledge my claim any, including the worst are still coming shows you acknowledge that is a justification. Just because you do not believe it is enough does not make it so. Because many of us do. Enough to have over 3k counties vote for Trump.

Also the work illegals are doing, much of comes at the cost of American citizens. Specifically when it comes to construction. I'm posting from my phone, if you really care about numbers then look it up as I'm not going to post what you already claim you will immediately discredit due to the source and not the context.

 

No, I see no justification for the wall.

imo, the only justification for a wall would be that it is the most cost effective method of preventing the population of undocumented aliens from growing.

BUT, that number isn't growing and a wall isn't the cheapest effective method.

 

Well that's only your interpretation. Over 3k counties see it differently. They are coming over, including many many bad ones. It's justified.

 

Actually, the undocumented alien community as a LOWER crime rate than the demographically equivalent citizen population.

We see people moving around inside the US.

But, as I posted, the total number of undocumented aliens stopped increasing at the 2008 economic crash.

You still don't have a justification for spending $40Billion.

 

Never claimed they didn't. Only claimed many that come are criminals and they are coming over the border. A wall can help stop that. That is an objective justification.

You can disagree and feel it's not enough. But you asked for a justification and I gave you one. 3k counties agree with me.

 

No, you gave me NO justification for spending that much money.

Again, the number of undocumented aliens in the US is not rising.

If the objective is to prevent the number of undocumented aliens from growing, there is no justification for the wall.

Your "number of counties" thing just indicates that either there is some other agenda or those people are caught up in the political rhetoric and haven't done the math.

 

I see no reason not to take the President at his word. If he says he's about to start working on the wall then why not believe him? Trump has a long history of completing complex construction projects, so if anyone could build that wall, he most likely could. Why would he make such a declarative statement in front of the entire nation if he didn't actually plan to do it?

 

The larger question is: Does illegal immigration harm our nation? If not then forget about it and allow people to pour over the border. If, however; it can be shown that illegal, unfettered immigration does us harm then we have reason enough to end it. We can build a wall and man it, which will stop most of the crossings. Then we can arrest those who are here w/o documentation and deliver then to the far side of the wall. It would not be done in mass. We'd move one or two at a time and over time, many years, eventually those who came here unlawfully would be sent back home.

Would this activity be legal? Yes. Would it be moral? That is a much more difficult question, but if one is a victim of a crime committed by an illegal immigrant the answer to that question is clear. The larger question is: Do we actually want to do it? Do we want to be responsible for grabbing peaceful, productive people and hustling them across the border? I don't think so. If we only removed problem people we would benefit from it and we would have a clear conscience while doing so.

 

Did you write this without smiling?

 

Hoozah and Haroo for Trump.

 

I gave a 100 percent justification for that, you just disagree with it. But it is a justification regardless of your approval.

 

Americans don't want the ridiculous, ineffective wall and, despite the nonsense about Mexico paying for it, US taxpayers are going to be stuck with a huge bill for something they aren't buying.

The "King of Debt"'s promise of " immediate" construction of a wall must be of that same alternative "immediate" as the repeal of "ObamaCare" that'll still be around for years.


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