Where did the wives of Cain and Abel come from?

Actually it is a work of fiction.. but the messages as a morality tale are important, not proving is sloppy historicity.

Look at Jonah.. He was a rabid nationalist who hated the people of Ninevah... and he defied God's orders.

Did he sit in the belly of a big fish for 3 days or was that symbolic of a 3 day "time out" to consider his disobedience?

What is the lesson?

Have you ever heard of Dilmun or the Ouroboro before today? You keep jumping over questions that I have asked you.

 

I answered the question in the thread that you asked it in.

The answer was that I have stumbled across some of it in the past but effectively have 0 understanding of them.

 

Maybe you should go to the ME or Sinai or even Bahrain and see for yourself. I have.

 

Sounds like an adventure.

Their existence is not contrary to biblical account. You have not done anything to demonstrate that the stories have genesis in man.

Unless you feel capable of proving the other legends as authentic, thereby disrupting the bibles account, you are attempting to use one magic to dispel another.

 

Actually they are.. you have to understand that the finest minds at the University or Tel Aviv have been looking for some evidence of Exodus for 100 years.

There is NONE... and they are brave to tell the truth.

I am not talking about other Creation myths.. Every culture has them and always had them..

In Dilmun I am speaking of a concrete archeological record.

The difference is that only fundies take the Bible literally and only since the Protestant Reformation.

I don't see the disconnect between science and mythology as serving Christianity at all.

Other creation myths are no more authentic history than Genesis..

 

So if we have no evidence of it, it did not happen.

You claim none are more authentic than another, yet you point to their existence to demonstrate that one was clearly "stolen". You dismiss your own evidence. You have done nothing to support an anti-biblical account. You say that the bible is accurate where it is accurate because it was "common" to fold fact into fiction. You then dismiss the entire thing as fiction, while accepting that there are indeed facts therein. You dismiss the entire thing as fiction because "it doesn't make sense to you" and "you have seen things like it in the past".

This is not a valid argument.

This is why I refused the Obama argument with you before. You are contradictory and unwilling to yield to facts. It would have really annoyed me to deal with that with the body of evidence I have supporting the theory... which, btw, I am willing to concede is incorrect. Until such time as you are willing to accept being wrong, arguing with you is futile.

 

Of course the myths were stolen.. They are thousands of years older than even the earliest form of Judaism and didn't come about until the Jews were exiled to Babylon and exposed to the rich cultural heritage of Babylon..

All the pagan bedouin tribes carried a box around on a litter containing their god.

 

Cain killed Abel before he married...

... Cain's wife was from Nod, the land east of Eden...

... Uncle Ferd's ex- came from the neighborhood next to the local landfill.

 

"Of course" is not an argument. You are beginning at the conclusion, rather than the beginning.

IF the bible were the most accurate account of creation, it is not unlikely that OTHER VERSIONS would exist prior to it.

Again... all you are doing is corroborating the story, not disproving it.

 

The genesis was just the Jewish creation myth.. and its as silly as the rest of them.

Gentiles were NOT considered from the Adamic line.. They contradict themselves forgetting that Abraham had seven other sons by Keturah and Hagar.

 

For whom do you claim to be speaking?

 

Jewish and Christian scholars.

Its their story.. its what give them an identity and an entitlement.

 

I would like a link please.

 

You mean my study of 40 years of history of the ME, archeology, the Bible and Jewish myths.

 

I suspected as much. This should not be considered a dismissal of yourself as an expert, I have no such intent.


You consider yourself a Jewish/Christian scholar... so when I ask you who's views you claim to be representing, you mean YOURS.

You say it is "their story", yet dismiss "their" view of creation and substitute your own. So really... what we are discussing here is YOUR interpretation, as an uncontested expert on the subject.

Again, not dismissing. I just want to be clear.

 

So I take it we are done?

I cannot disprove your interpretation without addressing a pillar of the belief on which you have built a lifetime of work.

You know why the first WTC bombing was unsuccessful? Because they did not get close enough to destroy a foundational column.

I would have to address something you would presumably be much better informed than I on... so my only conceivable argument would have to address a foundation of your opinion, with enough force to bring the house of cards down.


I doubt I can do that, as you have demonstrated that you are unwilling to concede when you are wrong.

Now you understand, the Obama and Religion thread has saved me countless hours of wasted effort not ONLY in that thread... but each I address you in.

You are right.
I cannot convince you of anything you have not already come to a conclusion on.

You win.

 

Well, I don't think you are much interested in education.

When Lot's wife turned into a pillar of salt, that means she was barren, not that she turned to salt.

 

I am surprised with all your insight on the subject you have not yet realized, though I have stated it several times, the point of this thread was to make fundamentalists take a more abstract view of the bible.

I am all about being educated... however I like to be clear on what I am being educated on. If it is your opinion, and you have this experience behind you, you cannot bore me with details... however if you are espousing your opinion on what Christians believe whether they know it or not, it is of no interest to me. I already know they are wrong.

*At the end of the day you would put me in the position of defending something I don't believe in because you are not refuting it well.

 

You have to start with the basics.. WHAT is it? Is it history or is it morality tales and sacred text?

 

I understand. I am saying it is likely impossible to start at ground 0 due to the influence of theologies you are aware of.

You are subjective by definition.

As such, addressing the ethereal seems stupid, given your subjectivity. Arguments with theists who do not understand their ONLY link must seem perversely easy and yet unending.

I am not the one.

You want to start with the basics you say... so do I.

Demonstrate your willingness to be convinced of anything contrary to your current belief system.

 

I am not talking about theology.. I am talking about history and archeology.

 

You refuse. I understand.

Just to be clear, I want only that you demonstrate that ANYTHING you believe is worthy of scrutiny by you.

If you do not present an example, I will consider this done.

 

I haven't talked about theology at all.

I am talking about studying archeology, history and language.

For instance:

Out of slavery in Exodus means coming out of ignorance and out of independence from God.

The same concept is present in the Koran..

Muslim called the time before Mohammed's message to return to the God of Abraham... the Time of the Ignorance.

Its interesting how words are used throughout the Bible.

For instance... where we teach that the whole world was flooded.. the whole planet... but the word used is Eretz.... the land.. and Eretz is used over and over again meaning the land that they knew.

In the story of Joseph... they went into Egypt because of famine in Eretz..

 

What do you think "Christian and Jewish scholars" means?

What do you think I meant by "who's views do you claim to be representing?"

You keep going on about the (*)(*)(*)(*)ing snake people. I understand that this is what you have studied. I have studied computers. I could make a far fetched argument that faith in God requires binary logic as a prerequisite.

It has (*)(*)(*)(*) all to do with what we are discussing, which is biblical story. If you aren't talking about theology, then don't argue it for a zillion pages in the religion section. If you would like to assert that the story was "stolen" then you are going to require an argument stronger than "of course they stole it".

 

Archeology shows concrete evidence of the Snake cults of the Indus Valley, Arabia, the Levant, Mesopotamia and Egypt that predate Genesis by 3,000 years or more.

The Snake Cults also show the Tree of Life as a central theme.

Genesis turns the snake into Satan ... and the Tree of Life as a Forbidden Fruit.

If that isn't about dueling religions, please tell me what it is about.

Of course the early Hebrews were just bedouin who traveled around carrying God in a box like ALL the pagan Bedouin tribes,