Which Vision of America Will Win Out?

If the FED is a government entity, how can the government owe it money?

"Owed to private individuals and entities", what the hell does that mean? WHO? The whole thing is suspicious.

"Intergovernmental holdings", so we're supposed to be in a panic to repay money someone else stole from retirements and SS? If someone stole money from a private retirement fund they would be in prison.

"Foreign nations", until we know how much of that is trade debt, one can't take that figure seriously. Let the international traders pay that through taxes like truck drivers have to pay an extra tax for the highways they use for commerce. The American people shouldn't pay more taxes for the lack of tariffs that global corporations are making trillions collectively on.

 

Carlin NAILED IT!! He shared what is most likely the truth.

 

The entire point of any Western country is limiting government to what it can do best and allowing the market to do what it can do best. Unfortunately, the US market behaves like a lunatic child.

Show me a Western country that looks like the old Soviet Union.

Then toss me more of your silly propaganda.

 

Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Ben Franklin, John Hancock, George Washington, etc. etc. all were politicians. There are plenty of good men all across America who would truly represent the best of America. We just need to get them into power. It is at that point we abolish the FED. No one in their right might would want to do anything with traitors in control. Obama, because he truly does nothing, might be the best president we have elected in decades. Republicans with full control changed, or brought in, 5 new laws a day.

 

I support a fully governmental central bank design like the first two Banks of the United States, but the Fed Reserve was a terrible replacement for these.

The Fed is an organ of government that is run by banking executives. This is why I refer to it as a hybrid system.

When it was first put into place, I'm sure it seemed like a good idea, but ever since the 80s, it basically became corrupt as hell.

 

There is a governmental connection to the Fed Reserve, but the problem with its design is that it essentially expects bank executives to regulate themselves.

Ben Bernanke is a direct benefactor of the policies he's supposed to govern, for example.

In order to have ethical regulators, they must be completely separated from the industries they regulate. Our original central banks did this, but unfortunately, the Fed Reserve system does not.

 

No...Social Democracy only addresses the idea of the overall human condition.

Where it fails is in the actual delivering of it. Everywhere it's tried, it falls apart of its own weight, or becomes Totalitarian.

It sounds lovely to those without a brain cell in their head, and with lovely ideas of Utopian perfection, but what instead happens is a heavyweight and untenable monstrosity of control and regulation, combined with massive wastefulness and dysfunction.

Constitutional Republics which protect as unregulated a Free Market as possible best harness those good aspects of human nature while limiting the negative aspects. That is why the USA exploded onto the world scene as dominant superpower.

We're in the process of pissing that experiment away by losing our focus on what made us great.

And we have these same useless Socialist Democrats to blame: the same ones from which so many of our citizen fled.

 

Kissinger and Greenspan have more power than any sitting president has had in the half a century they have been in Washington. "The president chooses who runs the FED", what a joke. The president "picks" who he is told to "pick". The bank is more powerful than the government.

"Give me control of a nation's money supply, and I care not who makes its laws."--Mayer Amschel Rothschild

".... the Federal Reserve System is a system of privately held, for profit corporations, not a government agency, and that it was commissioned to print fiat money on behalf of the federal government, at a fee ultimately paid for by the personal income tax (through service on bond interest).....the United States dollar is not backed by gold, and claims that this means the dollar has no real backing other than future income tax payments. Consequently...... Federal Reserve Notes represent debt instead of wealth.

..... the Federal Reserve System operates by manipulation of what is sometimes referred to as the business cycle of economic expansion and retraction by putting new notes into circulation to increase the ease of obtaining credit, which devalues the currency, then compounds inflation by increasing interest (prime) rates. This manipulation........ is responsible for a 96% devaluation of American currency since it was made possible to increasingly sever the link with gold backing by the Federal Reserve Act of 1913. ....... this process of creating new money and adding it to the money supply is known as debasement and is a cause of inflation. In this way,..... the Federal Reserve System simultaneously controls the supply of money and its value.

.... this monetary policy is the strongest form of governance that has ever existed, and is central to the unconstitutional, global power ambitions of the interests that supposedly control the Federal Reserve System.

.............. the private interests controlling the Federal Reserve System have been present for generations. ..... most Americans are kept ignorant of how the Federal Reserve operates through actions of corrupt politicians and an increasingly centralized media. By using legalistic and economic "mumbo-jumbo” terms such as 'monetizing the debt' or ‘adjusting monetary policy for increased fluidity of credit’, these interests,... conceal the true actions of the Fed behind veils of legitimacy.

....... there is no reason why the Federal Reserve System should have a monopoly on the U.S. money supply...... "America got along just fine before the Federal Reserve came into existence."

...... the U.S. Congress has no control or oversight over the Fed, and hence has no control over the value of U.S. money. .....Congressional control over the value of money is required by Article 1, Section 8 of the United States Constitution."----America:Freedom to Fascism.(2006)

 

Prove what you are saying.

 

The US became a superpower for many reasons, but it had little to do with our specific system of government.

The main reasons involved the fact that most of the world was devastated by WW2 and America had a very favorable population size vs. natural resource supply ratio.

The main evidence for why our governmental system had little to do with it is the fact that the USSR was a competing superpower with us after WW2 for about 45 years.

We're pissing away our primacy through corruption and cronyism -- not social democratism. It also doesn't help that we've gotten so entangled in the world's conflicts.

Our primacy was limited anyway, however, by the simple fact that globalization evens things out in the long run. As the developing world gets more prosperous, that leaves less room for us to be decadent.

 

Neither side will "win out" because the war has been over for hundreds of years. The central government has plenary legal authority over our lives and the elites use this power to perpetuate their monetary and landed hegemony at the expense of the working classes. The left-right dichotomy is just a political sideshow that is meant to distract millions of useful idiots from the awful truth.

 

This statement is so true.

So those that think they are capitalist who support free trade, know you are global collectivists.

For those who think collectivism means there isn't an elite class, this is your wake up call.

For those who think they aren't traitors to America by supporting free trade, please don't cry on the gallows.

 

Debt is always a choice. But if you do not want debt, then you do not have roads, houses, post offices, a military, and so forth. think you can live with those consequences and still reamain "free?"

 

Being in debt to the government is no choice on April 15th. We're definitely not free on that day.

And government has plenty of ways of getting money besides making us indentured servants without a time limit.

 

There is one word for telling people that if they don't pay for farm subsidies, bailouts, international monetary funds, fiat currency, welfare, etc., that you're going to take away roads, post offices, military, etc., and it's called extortion.

ex·tor·tion
   /ɪkˈstɔrʃən/ Show Spelled[ik-stawr-shuhn] Show IPA
–noun
1.
an act or instance of extorting.
2.
Law . the crime of obtaining money or some other thing of value by the abuse of one's office or authority.
3.
oppressive or illegal exaction, as of excessive price or interest: the extortions of usurers.

 

Originally Posted by Truth Detector
A higher standard as determined by Liberal intellectuals. However, if you judge it by REALITY, I assure you there is nothing that makes European standards better than American; unless of course higher taxes, less choice, long waits for medical care, higher costs and apartment living are the higher standards being judged.


It wasn’t ”bragging", it was a statement of FACT as to why I am better off WITHOUT dependence on the Nanny State.

One thing I am certain of, your ability to achieve such a figure in your lifetime is slim unless you decide to become a corrupt politician; then your chances do increase. In America, you can achieve this without an education; just the will and desire to work hard and produce a good or service people need or want.

I see that not only are you poorly informed, but that you also have a reading comprehension problem.

Wrong again; but at least you are consistent for a petulant uninformed Liberal. I measure my self worth by my intelligence and ability to comprehend facts; two things you are profoundly lacking in.

 

You presume that the American electorate is well informed and interested in what is best for the nation; however, as evidenced by the current occupant in the White House, you would be rolling the dice. I say no thank you to that.

In addition, you also forget that an important aspect in a free Democratic society is a free press which informs its citizens. Currently, most of the mainstream press is so obviously in the tank for lunatic democrat policies that the last thing they are doing is informing the citizenry. How do I know this? Just look at the election coverage on Obama versus that of Palin who wasn't even the Presidential candidate. When Bush was President and gas prices climbed to the $3 levels the press went ballistic and Democrats demanded he do something about it with claims he was in bed with his oil buddies. With gas prices exceeding $4 a gallon today you can hear a pin drop; why do you think that is?

No my friend, placing your faith in politicians and the idiots who elect them versus a quasi-independent Federal Banking system is a dangerous thing. You may want to re-think that.

 

It is always refreshing to see those who "get it."

 

the Fed has a lien on itself?

The Treasury does not say FRN's are evidences of debt, nor that the Federal Reserve owns virtually everything.

Anything else?

Dollars are not debt. They are legal tender for debt. The Govt would take dollars from taxes in excess of their outlays and use them to pay down the debt.

They did exactly that in 2000, and paid the debt down $114 billion.

 

And this awful truth is?

I have heard many conspiracy theories about this dark underworld that controls the worlds wealth but based on my knowledge of human nature and its history, am very doubtful that such a secret organization could ever be in complete agreement and able to stay in the shadows pulling the puppeteer strings for long.

 

Yet the Pass the Buck Generation did just that, electing tax cut panderers like Reagan and Bush who ran up trillions of debt.

Now what?

 

Different government entities.

Private individuals and entities hold the notes and therefore are owed the debt.

Good point.

None of it is trade debt. The hold US Govt notes and bonds.

 

Where is the third (and most likely) option for which form of government will win out? We currently have a proactive or interfering government that does favors both for the liberals and for the very rich and many business interests (especially for large corporations). Silicon Magic seems to suggest that either only the liberal programs and entitlements and tax breaks will survive or that alternatively all the favors will be done away with and limited government will be brought into being.

Given the balance of power in Washington D.C., it is much more likely that it will be most of the liberal programs and entitlements on the chopping block and the other programs and entitlements will remain. We will end up with a slightly diminished government by the rich, of the rich and for the rich. I am not a Marxist or even a socialist but I do not see how such a government will benefit me (unless I suddenly win the lottery).

 

The Fed is run by the Fed Reserve Board, members of which are selected by the President and approved by the Senate.

Let me know if what I'm saying is totally new to you and I'll provide the links.

Upon what basis do you assert it has become corrupt since the 80s?

 

"Federal Reserve notes represent a first lien on all the assets of the
Federal Reserve Banks, and on the collateral specifically held against them."

A note is evidence of debt. FRN's are notes, and the Fed is the maker of FRN's.

FRN dollars are evidence of debt. They're notes.

Well that's interesting. I'd like to hear more about that, because I don't see how one can pa down debt with debt. That's like paying your Visa bill with your Mastercard.