Will we have to fight fascism again? European elections suggest yes...

What do you mean again?

The fight against fascism and tyranny is constant and never ending.

 

The concept of Holy Roman Empire is well-known. The problem is that the realty is far away from this concept.

I would be surprised if De Gaulle would like the state that EU is in for the moment. There is no De Gaulle for the moment. There is Francois Olland, the most disliked leader of France ever.

He was an independent politician. Can you give a name of present EU politician that deserves to stay in one line with his?

If you think that De Gaulle being anti-communist would threaten the future of his people by playing a big boy - you don't understand his phenomenon. De Gaulle used the problems of Germany and fought against NATO dictatorship with his special relationship with USSR. If it was needed he would go to a country which he fought in two world wars. If it was needed he met with communists whom he despised. The idea of Europe from Atlantics to Urals could have been transformed into Europe from Atlantic to Pacific..., if only european politicians were independent and cared about the future of their people. For now they are only good enough to be ufcked by a middle clerk of White House...

 

Immigration is what is used by far right groups at the moment to try opportunistically to garner votes. After 9/11 it was creating fear of Muslims. Basically as snake says they are opportunistic.

Our immigration is for two reasons, one to make sure there is sufficient workforce for people to retire earlier than 80 and two, due to the rules of the EU.

UKIP is only currently complaining about the EU that is white workers but probably after a while they will get onto the traditional place of the far right, non whites.

They for some reason are helped enormously by the media in creating this hatred. For instance we are told day and night that 29,000,000 Romanians are coming here just to live off benefits. Those that are working are taking our jobs because they work day and night for tu-pence ha'penny. Research has now shown that East Europeans are more likely to be employed than British and that they give more to the country than they take away. As far as taking jobs is concerned again research suggests this is usually not the case but can happen in recession. Some of the issues with this I think comes from the destruction of our employment laws and lack of union involvement.

These people cause me no problems why would I be worried about them? I have lived in areas where there has been a high Muslim population, I have also lived in an area with a high East European population, neither of them posed any problem to me. They do pose a problem to people who are either unemployed or in low paid work - or do they? Like I have said probably not most of the time. However these people are really suffering at the moment either with massively reduced benefits or wages. As I said earlier people in this situation used to be looked after by Unions and indeed what I did not say also by the Labour party.

People have said about the BNP that they joined it because they gave them a sense of belonging. That is what these far right groups supported by the press do. Of course involved with them are intelligent racists who all apart from Golden Dawn are hiding their known but true position.

I have seen people arguing that they are not racist, that they simply want to vote for UKIP because they do not need immigrants interfering with their right to get a good job at above minimum wage and they do not want to pay their benefits - though I think that one has died down now as it is pretty well known that this is not true.

The far right are opportunistically filling a void. The are supported massively by the gutter press in their message. They are succeeding because at this time there are people who need some hope of a better future, are not supported and feel they have no political voice. The Far Right are also working with Putin in the hope of destroying the EU and getting people on the Russian Eurasian bandwagon.

People need to feel politically involved, that they have the possibility of equal education chances and social mobility and they quite simply do not at the moment.

We have been through this already at the end of the 70's and early 80's concerning our Afro Caribbean population who some of the Conservatives then were wanting to send back home. I was living in London at the time and working in Brixton at the time of the Brixton riots. This was defeated because it was seen for what it was, that is racism. I think it was Livingston who put the most work in and London really worked hard at a local level in combating racism. This was done possibly with less effect in the rest of the UK. Clearly people who call racism PC, never were non racist.

What we find today is that London is according to a new study presented in today's Guardian, the least racist part of the UK and UKIP could not get any attention there. I would suggest this is not because there are many different people there as we know that in say Birmingham they have to work to stop racism between Asians and Africans so I would suggest London properly understood what racism is about and genuinely sees how it harms society.

It takes work. Just like in London it was not created out of the blue. Nor did or do people integrate just by chance. It is something which needs to be worked on.

My daughter was talking to me about Scottish Independence and the reality that we need immigrants. We live in a small Scottish town and almost everyone is Scottish. She said, and she is not racist, but she said 'I have to say Mum that if half the town suddenly became Muslim I would not like it. I have though thought at least they would be quiet at night' (having heard of the Roma up at night ). I said she would need to make a choice as to whether she wanted to work until she was 80. She said well what if people resented them. Now I do not think we would suddenly have half our population Muslim, personally I think the Roma are more likely to like this town but we had previously been speaking about if Scotland gets Independence one of the most important things is to get strong local councils again and so I said then that is why you need a strong local council to work at bringing people together because it most definitely can be done. I saw it done in London and it still seems to be working there but our current belief that you can get people to integrate and get on with no work just does not happen so that is the other reason there are the current difficulties.

From the Guardian article

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/may/27/-sp-racism-on-rise-in-britain

 

Many European nations have valid concerns regarding both the negative aspects of the EU on national sovereignty and on the negative influence of Islamism.

Since most mainstream parties in Europe tend to be in denial about these things, it's not surprising that the far right would capitalize on them.

 

this guy is way more dangerous

 

Give it a friggin' rest. The forum is bored with your stupid antics.

 

Sorry once more...but I am in that to French to let you go away with such complete wrong ideas about De Gaulle.

De Gaulle was truely anticommunist and absolut oposed to the USSR. he simly though that France is to small to organize an Independent european conception so he prefered to build friendship with Germany.

Independence for Europe without anglo-saxon domination: yes

Partnership with the terror regime called USSR after he just did win the war against Hitler?

NEVER!

Our French nukes are to protect us from Putin as they where needed before against Stalin. France does not expect danger coming from the USA.

La France fait partie de l'OTAN.

And be sure: If Putin does use nukes ever, la France will answer same currency.

 

Everyone that believe this new rise of 'fascism' is real will end in opposition and start to try to stop it, the result is a new contra movement.
Or when you try to oppose that left-right political fight you end up in yet another new movement.
History was about movements, the only way to stop a new movement is to not become part of one, millions already did without seeing or understand it.
There is no fundamental difference between a movement that was caused and created via politics and propaganda, or by revolts and a popular figure speaking or yelling through a bull horn. The result is in both ways the same, mass organisation.
Nearly an unstoppable process. Only in one way stoppable, by stopping your political and other fights (the ones caused by for example bureacracy), don't be shocked and 'wake up' from this rising danger (backed up by propaganda), and don't move or be part of any political or counter/contra movement or opposition.

 

BS.

Why do you assume every time an election moves to the "right" its going to end in a re-run of Hitler? Should every election move a nation to the left?

A move to nationalism in Europe is obvious after decades of the failure of centralization that is the EU, combined with the disaster of unregulated immigration. The EU has failed in so many ways, the people know it and are paying the price, and they want out.

Thats not a re-run of Hitler.

 

you can represent only UFO forum, so shut up , and keep on topic
work of Putler,


show me something the similar from European far right

 

And what do you think about the source of the problem ?

Why the far right parties can rise? It seems like the main reason is the conflicts between native and immigrants. However, the true keen conflicts may come from the few people who stay on the tip of the pyramid and the large group of middle class, who mostly are native people, well it's only my wide guess

 

Unification of Europe with erasing cultural and historic borders and traditions can be a threat to national identity of some countries. This is irritating to many, especially, if NATO is using them in unjustified wars. War is bad for business. Younger generation forgets horrors of war and tends to become bolder. Therefore, if Nazi style nationalists would prevail, new regional wars are likely. However, who will stop them? NATO became an aggressive military organization with low moral standards. It cannot teach other countries or stop them, if they want to break away and start serious aggression to solve cultural or territorial problems or how to deal with immigration of people of alien culture, for example, Muslims in France, England or Norway. Even members of NATO are not necessarily good friends, such as Greece and Turkey.

 

Being german didn't add anything to your ability to resist very poorly performed Goebbels propaganda. You even believed the video clips on youtube which use the photos of pro-nazi crimes as 'illustration' of so-called raped Germany.

Yes De Gaulle was anti-communist. No he didn't opposed to the USSR. Facts tell different story, because facts never surrender to stupid russophobic propaganda.
http://tweetsh.com/russian-sympathies-of-general-de-gaulle/

I beg you a pardon. The greatness of De Gaulle for french history and development of Europe is undisputable. But general would never take the glory of defeating Hitler from the soviets.

That's the problem of current politicians of France then. Russia is not threatening France. Apart from real dangers.

For sure. For now. But I wouldn't bet for its participance in NATO in a decade.

I wish that french politicians for a start would make some sense. For instance I want them to learn how to get votes being in power and not in the opposition. Putin knows how to do that. Every western politician - doesn't.

 

The Soviet Union almost lost WW2 in October 1941 and won by the help of american supplie, and support so do not tell nuts inhere.

The mass rape of the babrabian Red Army is 100% true (against all women they did get, including russian woman and jewish women in concentration camps) and the world does know it, read the british historian Beever. Surely not a nazi at all.

read, think and understand the truth! The Red Army was criminal!

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2002/may/01/news.features11


"The subject of the Red Army's mass rapes in Germany has been so repressed in Russia that even today veterans refuse to acknowledge what really happened. The handful prepared to speak openly, however, are totally unrepentant. "They all lifted their skirts for us and lay on the bed," said the leader of one tank company."

Typical communist liar




Feel ashame! Shame on you! Not because it did happen (aslong as you was not involved - I guess you are not that old).

Be deeply ashamed for the fact that you denie these soviet crimes.

That is really a shame.

By telling that did not happen, you are to me a discrace to your nation indeed.

That is my opinion.

And my last answer. Keep on talking to sme of These real Neonazis from Germany inhere - they all love Putin...

bah

About De Gaulle you never did understand nothing.

 

Ultimately the source of the problem stems from the divide and rule policies initiated by mainstream politicians that pander to the lowest common denominator. Essentially people are motivated to vote when they are apoplectic about something or other. They normally take their venom out on the politicians, many of whom the apoplectic voted into power in the first place.

For some reason, there are a great many people who seem to lose any sense of reason when faced with circumstances that are beyond their control. The reasoning of many seems to be that the loss of their job is the fault of the immigrant who has moved into their neighbourhood, as opposed to the vagaries of the capitalist system which is the reality.

The fact that many poor, and mainly young working class people are unable to find affordable homes to move into is invariably seen as the fault of immigrants too. It rarely seems to occur to many of these people that the actual fault lies with successive governments' inaction on house-building.

People then blame immigrants for rising house prices without apparently grasping that it's the lack of supply that is the main driver for house price inflation.

Meanwhile, those in the fortunate enough position to own their homes outright, delight at front page headlines of their favourite newspapers like the Mail and Express that exclaim delight at such a scenario. It's inconceivable that these newspapers would openly extol other forms of inflation, but when it applies to the housing assets of their readership, ethics play a second fiddle to expedient greed.

Of course, Mail and Express readers are precisely the kinds of people the mainstream politicians and media pander to with their policy pronouncements' and headlines focusing on welfare scrounging immigrants. The politician's know only too well that the apoplectic house-owning immigrant-haters' are their core voters.

Voters mainly vote on the basis of two things. The first is that they are angry about something, and the second is that they feel they have a stake in the system. The typical right-wing, house-owner falls into both of these categories and it is this demographic that the politicians target for their votes.

The vast majority of the remainder of the population do not fall into these kinds of, what the media terms, "middle Englander's". Increasingly, people do not have a stake in the system which is why voter turnout is declining. A schism is appearing in society between the Johnny-foreigner hating apoplectic stake-holding voters, on the one hand, and the apathetic mainly poor and disillusioned non-stake holders, on the other.

Grass-roots democracy is in retreat throughout the Western world. However, that fact does not seem to deter the politicians' in their attempts to continue legitimizing what is a delegitimate and dysfunctional system in which most people are passive by-standers as opposed to participant activists. But that doesn't stop those who purport to represent us deceiving us into continuing on with their charade irrespective of the pathetically low turnouts.

Even if, for example, only 5% of those eligible to vote, actually vote at any given time, the so-called virtues of democracy would still be espoused by the kinds of people who denounce the perceived lack of democracy elsewhere. People often forget that Tony Blair's "landslide" re-election "victory" was presided over by one of the lowest turnouts in a century in which less than 25 per cent of those legible to vote actually voted for him.

No objective observer could in any sense of the term describe that state of affairs as democracy. Yet we have the audacity to invade and occupy those nasty Muslim countries in far away places for their supposed lack of democracy. If anybody tells you that the formal social democratic and liberal first past the post parliamentary democracies' of the West are anything other than oligarchical shams, they are lying.

 

De Gaulle was a great man...As long as he rule to France , Tito was banned to visit France.I do respect that man...He loved serbians

 

Lend-lease was made for Britain. USSR also used it and it was really very useful in the first years of war. What COULD HAVE BEEN is an interesting discussion with those who know history... I would be very much delighted to discuss what would have happened if Hitler would capture Moscow by the end of 1941. The war wouldn't be over and soviet manufactury (already transported to Urals) would come to its maximum in few months after it. I would discuss the role of supplies and what would happen if soviets didn't have it. And finally I would very much like to listen to an answer for a question what would Hitler do if he hasn't received help from Romanians, czechs, french supplies etc. Noone has ever calculated what was the input of french resources into strategical and tactical capabilities of Wehrmacht. Moreover some people even dare to tell that De Gaulle defeated Hitler... But as you can probably understand I don't believe that you are able to cope with the level of such a conversation. To discuss what COULD HAVE happened is only possible if a person knows what ACTUALLY HAPPENED. And you just reproduce the low-level propaganda.

Beever is an unqualified liar, who never proves the sensational revelations which certainly bring the cash and increase the scandalous fame, but have nothing to do with the realty. I know of hundreds of such writers who have the ideas of nazists escape to Mars with the help of aliens who had a base in Antarctida... Maybe the corpses of all the raped women were also taken there. You would never ask for details and the crap-writers never bother giving the evidence... I never denied that public opinion which is being formed by corporate propaganda-spreaders is russophobic. Unfortunately majority of europeans don't know basic things about russians and are ready to tolerate every violation against human rights of russians. These bio-robots are of no interest to me. I still believe that there are people in Europe who have their viewpoint. The results of latest EU elections make me feel inspiring.

I read the book by Anthony Beever. I saw the report of Goebbels about the mass rape. With photos of dead women staged as victims of rape. All of these sources are lies and propaganda, which is revived or spread by current propaganda media. You showed no evidence except for your own personal belief to anything russophobic what is written in western press.

Quite a reasonable behaviour in a country that is under a heavy russophobic propaganda... Note that the citation is not proven wrong and it doesn't prove the lies about mass murders. My arguments were:
1) military. Any army which behaves like thugs is losing the quality. Soviet army performed remarkably professional while finishing nazi in the heart of their Reich. You ignored it.
2) legal. Soviet army was the only one which had a law which convicted its soldiers to death in case of any crimes against the locals. You not only ignored it but started to repeat stupid propaganda that Stalin or\and communists ordered soldiers to do the mass rapes.
3) statistics. Beevor has the calculations which reveal his lies. He is cheaply manipulating the most ignorant of his readers. And I already am ready to discuss his 'facts', which you don't even remembered or paid attention.
4) Anti-russian propaganda of Goebbels, which you repeat (after modern western facist-followers' media) word for word. After it was revealed for you - you still preferred to trust Goebbels rather than me.
5) Absence of anti-soviet movements. Nazists' police was truly animals. Their crimes lead to rise of the most massive partisan movement in history. Unarmed and starving people were killing Hitler's police whenever possible. Germans didn't rebel. At all. But once there was a communist reform less than in a decade there were serious uprisings in Berlin... So you think that german men and women would tolerate mass rape and rebel only when soviets came to take their property? I am sure that german women are more decent than your facist propganda made you to think of them.

I don't trust a low level scum. So I don't have a reason to feel ashamed.

A crime is something that is proven in the court. A crime is something that was witnessed proven and what had accused criminals by law. Before it is done all the squeaking sounds of ignorant liars about 'crimes' is just a freudian fantasy of their evidently perverted sexual dreams. I am not surprised that modern Europe is dreaming of mass rapes. With current femalization of men and emancipation of women the first have no other choice to hope for sexual adventures and second part has no choice to have sexual diversity... But I strongly resist russian involvance into this perversion of exclusively european origin.

I don't care what you think of me. Even if the whole world is like you I wouldn't give a broken eurocent for the love of all of such a world, because anything is more expensive than such a love or hatred.
I feel my responsibility before the soldiers who proved on the battlefield against the whole Europe that they were not people of the second or third class as it was believed those days because of anti-communist propaganda that has much in common with modern western propganda. These people were heroes and not criminals. The criminals were executed by soviet law. Those who were not executed - should be identified and punished as long as war crimes don't have time of expiry.

It is not. If you had your own opinion it would deserve some respect. You just repeat anything that propaganda spreaders want you to think.

Poor brainless idiots... Our facists are fighting against Putin and hope to liberate russians from the reign of jews lead by Putin...

Whatever. I hope that you have at least the courage to quack to the media you believe to more than to Christ for they would explain you why De Gaulle wrote what he actually wrote, done what he actually has done and told what he actually told. Once you have at least some lies about things that you will never have your own opinion about - you can return to this discussion.

 

capitalism or communism or socialism are the ways of how we divide the resources (all kind of resources on the earth), communism was proved to be fail long time ago, socialism also facing its dead in many western countries.

capitalism is not sustainable--->absolutely agree, it is dying, and we as the normal people, can't change this trend at all....as you said, the big business, the ruling class control all the thing, and the ultimate worst result is a starting of WAR, or riot, which is always happen when people no longer tolerant the unfairness of dividing the resources at all.

it will happen, the matter is just "when"...yes I am a pessimist

 

Since when is Syriza 'far right'?

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/may/26/syriza-european-elections-greece

This whole thread is nothing but a straw-man, the real issue is the EU.

 

The Americans are already fighting fascism. We have a severe Rodent infestation.

Oh, and fascism is principally a LEFTIST ideology. Just because Leftist clowns label it otherwise doesn't make it so.

 

Capitalism isn't sustainable?

Where is it being applied these days? The United States veered into the collectivist/fascist killing fields 90 years ago, and has been strangling capitalism and other freedom based initiatives ever since.

The US is failing precisely because IT IS NOT CAPITALIST any more.

It's not even Constitutional.

 

Ok, you'll need to expand on this breathtaking revelation, because it appears that you are about the only person on the planet who believes fascism to be "leftist". Dear god...next you'll be telling us that National Socialism, as the Nazis called, was actually Marxism because of the sneaky use of that word 'socialism'-despite the Nazis and the fascists under Mussolini being fundamentally opposed to Marxism, liberalism and traditional conservatism.
Your assignment for today. Learn this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism#Definitions

 

If most illegal Muslim and Arab immigrants will leave Europe, all will be quiet again.. Extreme right wing parties will slowly fade

 

Nope, they'll just start attacking Jews and blacks again.

 

Some are fighting already. Neo Nazi are a part of Poroshenko government in Kiev. This is OK with EU and USA, because they wanted to de stabilize this particular region of the world.