Would a Basic Minimum Income dramatically reduce abortions?

Discussion in 'Abortion' started by DennisTate, Jun 4, 2019.

?

Will a Minimum Basic Income dramatically reduce the incidence of abortions?

  1. Perhaps by 1- 10 percent over the present rate.

    5 vote(s)
    55.6%
  2. Perhaps by 11 to twenty percent over the present rate.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Perhaps twenty one to thirty percent over the present rate.

    1 vote(s)
    11.1%
  4. Perhaps by even more than by thirty percent?

    3 vote(s)
    33.3%
  1. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
    Messages:
    31,369
    Likes Received:
    2,586
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    True...... but it is not a total scam.......
    as is often stated in philosophy there is some light in darkness and some darkness in light.........

    .... It can be argued that although Prime Minister Pierre E. Trudeau made an obviously terrible error back
    in 1974..... there is at least something of a positive side to it because by slowing down the economy of Canada
    and causing us to appear almost bankrupt on paper..........

    he slowed down the economy of both Canada and the USA and this could have greatly benefited the
    environment in comparison to what might have happened in a different time line where we on paper......
    appeared to have surpluses.......
    as opposed to a colossal national debt??????

    Did P. M. Pierre Elliott Trudeau save the world environment?

    Although I basically do not like the ideas put forward by Thomas Robert Malthus.... he was certainly not an idiot?!


     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2019
  2. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
    Messages:
    31,369
    Likes Received:
    2,586
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I am thinking that you will need to take a more complicated approach than that......
    Here is a suggestion:



    CanSo Dollars... could finance a Unified Theory of Modern World Problems?!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antigonish_Movement
    .....

     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2019
  3. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2015
    Messages:
    53,011
    Likes Received:
    25,090
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Wealthy individuals and Big Business will always be able to avoid high tax rates. Income tax laws are carefully crafted to make this possible. All complex laws are designed to stuff the pockets of professional politicians and their cronies.
     
    DennisTate likes this.
  4. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2015
    Messages:
    53,011
    Likes Received:
    25,090
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Nations and their people can recover from the damage done by Big Bad Government, but the errors often kill off 10s of millions.

    Can we really trust science, especially politicized science now that the scope of the replication crisis has been exposed?

    "If the replication crisis is a sign that science isn’t broken, then what does “broken” even mean?
    In the stem-cell case, self-correcting science did appear to work as advertised: Problems in the paper were discovered by attentive colleagues shortly after it appeared in print. But the recent history of science fraud suggests that many more examples come to light not quickly and not via any standard self-corrective mechanism—e.g., peer review or unsuccessful replications—but rather at a long delay and through the more conventional means of whistleblowing. That’s how Diedrik Stapel, a notorious fabulist with 58 retracted papers in social psychology, was discovered in 2011. The fact that Stapel’s brazen fraud had not been caught (or self-corrected) earlier made his case a seminal event in the current replication crisis. Why had no one noticed, in strictly scientific terms, all the false effects that he’d slipped into the literature?"
    SLATE: SCIENCE, Is Science Broken? Or is it self-correcting? By Daniel Engber, Lisa Larson-Walker, AUG. 21 2017.
    http://www.slate.com/articles/healt...is_not_self_correcting_science_is_broken.html
     
    DennisTate likes this.
  5. gamewell45

    gamewell45 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2011
    Messages:
    24,711
    Likes Received:
    3,547
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So? have the kid, turn it over to the state to raise. I'm sure the taxpayers won't mind.
     
    DennisTate likes this.
  6. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2017
    Messages:
    14,640
    Likes Received:
    7,802
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Perhaps..or rape or incest or a moments irresponsible passion..whatever it is, the ZEF is not wanted and can’t be cared for the way the woman would
     
  7. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2017
    Messages:
    14,640
    Likes Received:
    7,802
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Well it’s clear how little you respect women
     
  8. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2017
    Messages:
    14,640
    Likes Received:
    7,802
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Yep because the welfaret they get makes them live such a high life style (sarcasm alert)
     
    DennisTate likes this.
  9. PrincipleInvestment

    PrincipleInvestment Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2016
    Messages:
    23,170
    Likes Received:
    16,477
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Canada has social welfare programs, maybe they'd have a higher standard of living on the Canadian taxpayer's dime. Enough subsidy is meant to be "enough" not an attractive alternative to employment. US taxpayers provide free contraceptives .... that's "enough".
     
  10. PrincipleInvestment

    PrincipleInvestment Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2016
    Messages:
    23,170
    Likes Received:
    16,477
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I'm far from "big business" but small businesses certainly take tax tips from "big business" accounting professionals. In a global economy without tariffs the practice of offshoring is inevitable. I'll save $12K on my personal income alone next year. $35K on corporate taxes on top of that. In totality the IRS will forfeit $80K next year when all my income is transferred. The $22tn US deficit is a pretty good indication of how common a strategy it's become. I've been approached by crypto currency brokers who can "off grid" your income, and profits to avoid all taxation. Loopholes aren't written into the tax code on purpose, they're just discovered and marketed by accountants.
     
    Ddyad and DennisTate like this.
  11. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
    Messages:
    31,369
    Likes Received:
    2,586
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I'm impressed!

    I'm a janitor at a school because I grew up really, really into the Messianic Gentile movement so I didn't want to work on Saturdays so I took the easy way to accomplish that where I live, forestry.

    But Mr. Garner Ted Armstrong got me into the habit of Watching World Events, even economics, so I actually listen to interviews like the following in order to attempt as best as I can to understand CIA economist Jim Rickards.

    FORGET IRAN, IRAQ, UKRAINE
    THIS IS WHERE WWIII STARTS...


    Mr. Jim Rickards warns investors like you about a "One Hundred Trillion Dollar Meltdown" and my theory is that he is perhaps one of the thinkers benind the QAnon pheonmena?????

    In my appraisal....... Mr. Jim Rickards is no mere DVD sales person....
    I think that is just his cover story..... but the man
    is one of the greatest economists on earth at this time and in a sense
    ... he is like a prophet warning the people about what could well happen so that we
    get prepared.........
    but although his advice near the end of the interview is relatively good......
    ......something far, far, far, far better is in the works!

    QAnon... who could it be?

    I should add that he describes Derivatives as being something like poker chips.... for the extremely wealthy..... who bet on the markets much like a casino. President Obama and his team from 2009 - 2014 did good to prevent another 1929 and they really do deserve credit for that..........
    but if we actually want to stimulate the economy.... we need to learn from what President Obama did ..... and do something different........
    very different......
    which could perhaps set in motion:


    Could a real estate boom plus better Fed policy pay off USA national debt?

     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2019
  12. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2015
    Messages:
    53,011
    Likes Received:
    25,090
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Loopholes are a principle product for every corrupt political class. The US Congress is like Alice's Restaurant in the old song - you can get anything you want for the right price.

    “In late 1999, [Haley] Barbour and Democratic lobbyist Tommy Boggs we're planning to open a downtown restaurant called the Caucus Room, Which the Washington Post described as a “red meat emporium” that will “serve up power, influence, loopholes, money and all the other ingredients that make American Democracy great.” Seeking investors, Barbour called McAuliffe and asked for $100,000 which he sent over immediately. A while later, Barbour called back, said that they were oversubscribed, and sent back a check for $50,000. "So I figure I made fifty on the deal," said McAuliffe, who never saw a penny more.” Mark Leibovich, This Town, Penguin Books, 2013, p. 145.
     
    DennisTate likes this.
  13. PrincipleInvestment

    PrincipleInvestment Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2016
    Messages:
    23,170
    Likes Received:
    16,477
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    (D)'s put Maxine Waters in charge of the financial services committee. (D)'s draft iron clad tax codes? :lol:
     
  14. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
    Messages:
    31,369
    Likes Received:
    2,586
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    You need to think in terms of entire families though.......
    If the mother basically wanted to keep her baby.... and if her mom and dad
    were willing to help...........
    We are up to a possible $2000 just for this variation on an unconditional UBI.

    Once the baby is born dad could come around and then his parents.....
    and the seven of them if they have an thirty five hundred ......
    all of a sudden keeping the baby seems much more possible.

    https://www.michaeljournal.org/arti...2M8QRKafBAknolfkdgLHraPsaPRA_8FV3Q4giNNqTbI9w


    Many American Women Have Felt Pressured into Abortions, Study Finds


    JANUARY 24, 2018
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2019
  15. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2015
    Messages:
    53,011
    Likes Received:
    25,090
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Want a loophole? Just pay the current manifestation of outfits like Purple Strategies, Hill & Knowlton Strategies, Arent Fox, Glover Park Group, Barber, Griffith & Rogers, The Podesta Group, Squire Patton Boggs... and they will draft the legislation for you. They pay off crooked pols like Maxine to vote for the bill with the loophole. They do not even have to read the bills they vote for.

    “[Evan] Bayh, who was a finalist to be Barack Obama's running mate in 2008, vacuumed up as many sweet gigs as he could fit into his Club-issued trick-or-treat bag. He would eventually join the most potent business lobby in Washington, the US Chamber of Commerce– arguably the most fervent opponent of the Obama administration's agenda. Bayh and Andrew Card, A former White House chief of staff under George W. Bush, embarked on a summer “road show" on behalf of the Chamber’s interest in stopping certain regulations on business. Think Thelma & Louise without the headscarves. Or think, as Steve Benen wrote in the Washington Monthly, a former senator who is "practically a caricature of what a sell-out looks like." Mark Leibovich, This Town, Penguin Books, 2013, p. 169.
     
    PrincipleInvestment likes this.
  16. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
    Messages:
    31,369
    Likes Received:
    2,586
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I just got back an educational response to this message that I shall have to do some
    research on.


     
  17. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2014
    Messages:
    56,891
    Likes Received:
    21,024
    Trophy Points:
    113



    Here's the catch ….IF her parents are willing to help.

    NO grandparent is responsible for their grandchildren.

    Those who can't afford kids and MOOCH off others should NOT have kids.

    Maybe the grandparents NEED their 500 bucks for themselves.....


    Maybe the parents should pay their other bills first and then save money for future needs,...

    Maybe some parents don't have parents.

    Maybe some parents don't have parents that want to raise another kid.



    AND MAYBE she has the baby and NOBODY Helps her.


    NOPE, your little unfunded Tooth Fairy scenario just won't work.
     
    DennisTate likes this.
  18. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
    Messages:
    31,369
    Likes Received:
    2,586
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    But..... if it works or at least partly works in as many as ten percent of specific cases.....
    then in my opinion this is worth doing.

    I am kind of thinking though that this could significantly improve the formula for
    over fifty percent of women who would feel economic pressure toward having an
    abortion under the present set of circumstances.
     
  19. Crownline

    Crownline Banned at Members Request

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2016
    Messages:
    6,472
    Likes Received:
    6,537
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    If the baby starts getting 500 a month from birth, yes abortions will go down. If the woman has to use her 500 to feed her baby abortions will go up.
     
    DennisTate likes this.
  20. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2014
    Messages:
    56,891
    Likes Received:
    21,024
    Trophy Points:
    113

    Sorry, you have no proof ANY women would decide to gestate based on that flimsy promise......none...

    Did you know some women just do NOT want a kid?


    Did you know some women might just have kids to collect the 500?
     
  21. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
    Messages:
    31,369
    Likes Received:
    2,586
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Remember... what I am proposing is an unconditional payment to all Canadians
    so she is still free to work from home or have a part time or even a full time job
    once she has child care arrangements in place that appeal to her.

    I am talking about a pretty serious surge in many parts of the Canadian economy that should greatly increase the probability of there being job openings available that appeal to her. She could well decide to stay at home with her child ... .but not necessarily.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2019
  22. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2017
    Messages:
    14,640
    Likes Received:
    7,802
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    How do you pay for birth control?
     
  23. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    54,812
    Likes Received:
    18,482
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What does a child have to do with it? I'm referring to the irresponsibility of women who allow themselves to be impregnated.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2019
  24. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    54,812
    Likes Received:
    18,482
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Oh sure, rapes and incest make up the vast majority of abortions. When you're reduced to rare exceptions, you've lost the argument.

    As for a moment's irresponsibility, yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. It's about THAT, not money.
     
  25. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    54,812
    Likes Received:
    18,482
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes they ARE responsible, only very slightly less so than actual parents. Grandparents should always be stepping in when needed. Don't want to do that? Don't have a damned family in the first place. Seriously, what kind of absolutely shitty and terrible grandparent wouldn't just about give their own lives for their grandchildren, if needed?

    And the $500 in Dennis' scenario would go into the pool for the entire family, of which they are a part - ie, living together to cut costs, and sharing the work of raising the child and maintaining the home etc. If they're too damned greedy, lazy, or selfish to share the $2000 total - and home - with their own flesh and blood, they're not even worth discussing.
     

Share This Page