We are surely going to see a blood bath in the USA...

This is more asinine than your usual posting.

I am a flaming liberal and know how to use firearms quite well. Ten years of shooting and a few self-defense courses will do that.

 

That idea is so stupid. Why do you think tyrants enter government and want to eliminate guns? They know they are there to suck us dry and want to keep the money rolling in. If a representative truly represents the interests of the people, they would not fear the people. Our government is a collection of lying blood-suckers that think they are smarter than us all. They only want prestige, power, money, privilage and control over us all so they can become rich while we toil in factories. They love the spotlight and the praise. They think they're rock stars. They aren't. They are liars and cheats who live in luxury by keeping us as weak as possible. They don't give a (*)(*)(*)(*) about any of us. They are no better than an armed robber or a burglar sneaking through your window at 2 A.M. They must be thrown out and punished. Remember the French Revolution? That is what we truly need. Any politician caught deceiving the public for their own gain should be shot by a firing squad that consists of average hard-working Americans. All their assets shouild be confiscated and used to pay the national debt. I am not joking. This is a serious subject.

 

An AR-15 hands down.

You don't know much about guns do you?

 

Oh don't get me wrong, many European countries make a lot of money selling guns to the US... I just post here because of my sense of sympathyt towards the normal Americans who consider the right to their own lives above the rights of the arms companies to make money. Which is what it boils down to....

 

Nope.

Gun owners are not putting the "right" of company profits above their own rights to life. The ability to defend yourself if need be enhances the right to life.

 

What a bunch of hyperbolic nonsense. Combat veterans don't get rattled by low visibility and loud sounds.

 

Come back to me.... when you've done what you suggest; this is not the movies buddy!

 

You have some data to substantiate that claim?

 

Aramoana massacre, in 1990. Which resulted in New Zealand tightening gun control. They haven't had a single mass shooting since.

Australia, same story. 1996 Port Arthur massacre. Gun control tightened, not a single mass shooting since.

Given New Zealand hasn't had a mass shooting for over 20 years, that rate there would be zero.

Yet in that period, there have been around 50 mass shootings in the USA. It takes some seriously delusional thinking to convince yourself that the easy availability of semi-automatic weapons has nothing to do with mass shootings.

By the way, could some of you explain what liberty has been lost in New Zealand or Australia compared to the USA? After all, they grabbed the guns, so they must be fascist dictatorships, right? If you guys aren't all so full of it that your eyes are brown, you'll have no trouble pointing out the fascist leanings of New Zealand and Australia. Or any of the western democracies with strict gun laws, which tend to be notable for their lack of regularly scheduled massacres.

 

Wolverine, you are perhaps the only pro-gunner who's oppinion I truely respect on the subject; you have an objectiveness which is rare.

My OP is based on the following:

A continued trend in the US of nutters going nuts
The continued influence of the arms industry via the NRA towards gun ownership
The increase in fear thatr I observe amongst Americans, feeding the purchce of guns for "self defence"

Wolverine, life is not a static equation, you only have to go back 50 years to see the change in gun ownership and gun crime. I know from your posts that clearly you have a balanced perspective on this, so I'm not going to try to pursuade you that you should give up your guns (although I think you should ).

I just think Americans should have am honest, non-NRA, non-Arms industry debate about the 2nd and what it should mean to you today.

 

Errrrr - YUP!!

I fear we do wonder WTF because every time we go to talk to Americans about it some dyed in the wool can't think for myself republican spurts out the same old myths - the myths that like this one about defending yourself - just to not survive scrutiny

 

Leffe, we agree on certain things, but I've noticed a trend concerning certain recent events.

Back when the Trayvon incident happened, a lot of European media sources tried to spin the whole thing as some major indication of racism in America. It wasn't. It had more to do with the socioeconomic lines and racial lines that ran parallel in Sanford, FL. Sanford has a lot of crime and poverty, and black people are connected to most of both in that city.

Naturally, there are certain prejudices that are prevalent there.

However, the media turned it into a massive race-baiting exercise and successfully manipulated the black community and a lot of other people into a frenzy.

With this shooting in Colorado, the media is turning this into a gun rights debate, when in reality, it's more of a mental health debate and perhaps a federal grant debate.

As usual, certain European sources are taking advantage of the gun phobia that's predominant in a lot of the EU, but it's the same game with a different issue.

Logically, we can't just jump into this and blame guns.

And if some theater patrons have a desire to pack heat, well, I can't blame them for that. Is there a potential for a "blood bath"? Perhaps. But this isn't as big of a deal as you're suggesting.

We've had guns for a long time now. I know it might seem a little bizarre to much of Europe, but from our side of the pond, the lack of a right to carry is what strikes us as strange.

We'd rather be restricted after committing a crime rather than to have our rights restricted before doing anything wrong.

 

Semi-automatic weapons in comparison to what?

 

New Zealand also is very far removed from the rest of the world and doesn't border a crime-ridden hellhole.

 

Yeah! Suuuuuuure! That is certainly what happened in Australia after our "gun ban". Before the "gun ban"? About one mass shooting per year for roughly 12 years - after the ban one in roughly 15 years - and THEY were disarmed by unarmed bystanders

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Australia

 

Sorry but It does not seem to be your neighbours that are doing these mass shootings

 

Mexico has a massive problem with gang violence -- areas of Northern Mexico are worse than any American city.

That wasn't really my point though. Because of the porous border we have and because of the heavy influence of cartels, gun trafficking is a serious issue here.

If we simply banned all guns, then a huge illegal market would form with the cartels as the main benefactors.

 

humor. ever heard of it?

 

only. ten?

 

Which is very much appreciated. I see that both sides can be aggressively stupid regarding the issue of gun control.

Which is simply going to occur. As long as there are firearms available to a society at some point some firearms will be used for negative purposes. However, those uses are a small minority. There are more self-defensive uses than gun crimes in the US. Those gun crimes make up about 0.0004% of the total number of guns in the United States. Meaning that the other 99.9996% of firearms are either used for legal and peaceful purposes or serve no use at all (i.e. not used, sit in a gun safe). Those two categories are essentially one in my mind.

I am not inclined to agree that your figure of 0.0004% is more important than 99.9996%.

I really do not see this as having much of an impact. The only issue I have is the "militarization" in advertising.

I don't really see the fear that has been instilled by the gun industry. I have quite a few firearms (nearly fifty, most of which are collectors), I have a CCW permit, and I do not look to the gun industry for a reason to own or purchase firearms. I don't watch Fox News. I don't have the patience to read through gun magazines. In fact, I don't listen to right wingers on a majority of issues. My decision to carry a firearm is based on the potential that I may find myself in a less than favorable situation. Or I may be adjacent to a less than favorable situation.

Walking down a street in down town Denver and having your life and well being threatened by some piece of ghetto (*)(*)(*)(*) thug has that effect on someone. Had he decided to jump both me and my brother, what are we going to do? Say "wait.... just a sec bro, let me get the police on there way and you can beat the (*)(*)(*)(*) out of us for the five minutes it takes them to get here..."...? Or draw on him and end the conflict right there on the spot? Hmmmmmm... I don't believe I have been more frightened in my life than that particular situation. A close second being the only person in a room of twelve not snorting cocaine.

If I am in need of police assistance, I need it right than. A gun two seconds away is far more favorable to my well being than police officers are minutes away. Whatever the NRA or other gun rights groups advocate have little or no bearing on what I believe to be true on my reasons of carrying a concealed firearm.

You claim that gun violence is prevalent enough to justify further legislation. If the issue is that prevalent, and you are that fearful of something bad happening, then how am I the paranoid one for carrying a M&P40 subcompact?

Many people do.

 

Usually denoted with an LOL and proper grammar.

 

Conversely you will have one more law to use against them. You are armed we can arrest you right there no questions asked - admittedly it would be even better if you had, say an agreement with the Mexican government so that if they tried to cross the border - you arrest them but they spend jail time in Mexico

 

If they've gone through proper concealed carry training they most certainly would not just start firing off rounds.

 

It doesn't work with the War on Drugs, so I see no reason to believe that a War on Guns would.

 

Personally - in that situation I would hit them with my handbag - you do NOT want to be on the end of THAT particular weapon! Lols!! But really - what would you do in Australia? Would you carry a gun here or would you just do what we do and walk around unarmed?