Hungary’s Orban: 9/11 Proved ‘Christian Civilization Is Something We Must Fight for

The Germans did it, and they took their army with them.
They are Lutheran ... a German thing. The Anglian church plays a small roll.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_Namibia

 

The missionary program to Namibia started with English missionaries, and even your link says it was continued by Finnish and German missionaries, and not the German army.

 

Orban is such an ultra far right Christian, that the pope recently had a 30 minute visit with him to speak his mind about Orban's anti LGBT laws.
The pope left without wanting to be photographed with handshaking him = massive insult.

Considering him accusing random war refugees to be like 9/11 terrorists for just being muslim as well... you bet that he is right there with 2nd class people idea's.
As to claiming those refugees think apostates should be executed: Really? Most come from Syria and Afghanistan fleeing from extremist and absolutely don't think that.
Nothing of the sort happens in almost all Islamic nations. Nothing of such a thing happens in almost all western nations.
In fact.. far right wingers, being against Muslims,... are a bigger threat themselves.

The entire 9/11 operation was like around 100 people or less. And Al-Qaida has nothing to do with the Taliban, who is at war with ISIS. You do not know what you're talking about claiming it to be "sister" organizations is total bs. In general less than 1% of the Muslim population is part of a terrorist origination. In general the Muslim suffer the most under Muslim terrorism. In general the Muslims do the most against Muslim terrorism. It wasn't the US who, city by city, house by house... room by room cleared ISIS out of Iraq and Syria. Muslims did that. The US, who let it spawn in Iraq, while they as the occupier of the country were responsible for it, mostly tossed some bombs from either a plane safe high up in the sky or deep in a bunker controlling a drone. Not exactly putting their lives on the line against terror.

 

I don't care who started it.

I never disputed the german army is not a missionary institute.

Fact remains the Germans went there, and their German Christians missionaries converted so much that they still are the biggest religious group.
Their army protected them, ruthlessly.. and their Christian ways caused 80 to 90% of the locals to be massacred.

That is German Christian heritage,... the thing that matters.
The thing to be proud of according to Orban.
Very unlike them 9/11 attackers.

Sure.

 

Most of them flee misery, not their religious laws they don't have any sympathy for European culture and customs. That's legitimate to flee misery. Furthermore, a lot of illegal immigrants come from countries in peace (northern africa).
Furthermore, many Yezidis have testified having met their torturer in Europe.

Not in Europe, the upper class left draw in circle quoting Breivik, but that's all they got. Madrid, London, Bruxelles, Paris bombing, there is numerous bombings, murders nothing that compare to far right activitry right now, that's a constant lie repeated by the far left, but they have to speak of the USA to find any real activity of the far right.

That's just the upper part of the iceberg. Furthermore, you seems to forget that it's also a fight between Shia and Sunni muslims, it's shia muslims who fought the sunni ISIS in Syria and Iraq. Shia muslims who were also victims of genocide in ISIS controled zones. We could also mention that organization that justificated terrorism, murder of apostates such the Talibans, Al-Nosra (sons of Al-Qaida) fought ISIS.

The fact that some muslims fight people like ISIS don't mean they're supporter of apostate rights, it's just a fight between extremists and less extremists.

 

Your argument was to portray Christians as the ones who ran the Shark Island prison camp, when it was in fact ran by the German army who had nothing to do with Christianity.

They protected the colonies who where there to steal the national resources. Missionaries didn't have enemies in SW Africa.

 

Most of them fled the war against religious extremists and or Assad. Maybe you should pull up a map how bit IS was at one point.
And we're discussing Muslim refugees from the middle east... the place where the US bombed for 20 years straight in Afghanistan,
the war the US started in Iraq over nothing, and the spilling over IS that the US caused to go out of control and got exported into Syria.
Bit weird you don't consider it a war.

Pff... there are right wing attacks all over Germany. They even killed politicians. You don't know what goes on.

Uh no.. it's not the upper part of the iceberg. The amount of Muslims who join ISIS and whatever is exceptionally low.
Most of the victims are Muslim. Muslims are the ones fighting the most against ISIS.
All muslim nations got it as a policy to fight ISIS... even the Taliban government of Afghanistan.

No Muslim country got the idea to go kill the infidel, while plenty of them apply the Sharia law to the full extent.
It also hardly ever ever just happens. Turkey, Morocco, Saudi, Indonesia, Egypt, Jordan, UAE, OMAN.. are massive tourist destinations where westerns are safe.
We all know it. Lets be clear about it.

What you do is just pushing a far right wing fat lie that this is what Muslims stand for.

 

I don't give a rats butt that it has nothing to do with Christians. It still was done by devoted Christians and this is their heritage.

And push them from their lands, at gun point. They committed genocide against the lot of them when some objected.
You don't go from 80 to 90% genocidal success rate by pure luck. It's a systematic thing. It right on par with the holocaust.

 

War is a part of the trouble, but an important part of illegal immigration don't come from countries at war (northern africa), they flee poverty. It's legitimate, and many of us would likely to the same, but most of them don't have the tools to integrate in western society, neither the wish too, they want money for them and their family, which against isn't something I would blame them for.

Could you provide please links ?
It doesn't change it has nothing to do with the scale of recent islamic terrorist attacks in Europe.

Yes, and I already discussed with muslims that believed that ISIS members deserved death penalty, yet still believed in death penalty for blasphemers and apostates. ISIS is just the most extreme part of islamic extremism which is just a part of that. You can be against ISIS and still support death penalty for blasphemers and apostates.

You're indirectly showing my point : the fact that muslims fight ISIS doesn't mean they're moderate, they're at best less extremist than ISIS, and it's weird to tell that some people like the talibans that appreciate smashing the skull of a woman with stones are less extremist than some other people. You think that I have any respect for some people who sincerely believe it's morale to smash the skull of people with stones, one of the worst face of assumed sadism in name of religion just because they fought ISIS ? I might disappoint you.
To take an even more extremist example, the SA were suppressed by the SS. Does it make the SA or the SS less extremist ? No. The fact there is infighting isn't a form of proof toward moderation.
And again, most victims are muslims : that's already the distortion of a fact : most victims come from islamic countries, but how many were amadis (not considered as true muslims by many muslims), christian minorities, yezidis, or just victims of the internal wars of between shia and sunni.

We could claim that most victims of christian extremism before the 19th century were christian because the religion wars between protestant and catholics were an absolute slaughter. Would it make then christianity more likeable ? No.

Turkey as a long history of state atheism, considering other countries, you're better to not go too much in certain zones for Egypt. Most of those countries have authoritarian policies to fight terrorism. Morroco for instance have been criticized for their use of torture. And concerning Turkey, we can't stay the recognition of war crimes during colonization is incredible in the west, but it seems to be upward honnesty compared to the amount of hypocrisy the turks use to deny their genocide of assyrian christians, pontic greeks and armernian.
Furthermore, it would also hide a fact : the Islamic world is facing also massive rise of atheism, secularization despite the unrest of islamists, rise of atheism that is hard to measure exactly in societies that is extremely repressive toward apostasy.
You have muslims that believe that terrorism is bad, but however they still believe that death penalty toward apostates and blasphemers is justified. Terrorism isn't the only face of islamic totalitarism.

The fact that the only countries that have death penalty for apostates and blasphemers are muslims is a simple fact that's enough to judge the case of Islam, without counting all the blood their prophet has on his hand. I'm fully aware that many muslims are just secularized deists, who are torn about between their islamic identity and some of their convictions, but that's their problem, and I won't be a hypocrite and proclaim that a religion created by a slave owning, tribe slaughterer, married to a 9 YO is wonderfull to satisfy the lack of guts of some double standarted left winger or people who can't assume their real convictions and claim their apostasy.
You seems to adequate my position to far right, but my critics of exactly the same that the left wing has always made of obscurantism. The problem is that a large part of the left wing became spineless and got their brain turned into marmelade is their problem.

 

How did their Christian Heritage do that? Id say the above was done in spite of their Christian Heritage.

 

Orban wants to keep George Soros out too, and thereby ran afoul of Washington and the EU. Good for him! Last I heard Soros was ordering Brussels to clamp down hard on Poland and Hungary. Poland buckled to the economic pressure, which leaves Hungary to fend for itself.

Stand your ground Orban!

 

You don’t have to be perfect to be good, just better than the alternatives. Judeo-Christian values are the basis of Western Civilization, and yes it’s superior to the alternatives now trying to destroy it.

 

What alternatives are trying to destroy it?

 

Leftist atheism and Islam.

 

Ok, so right-wing atheism are not destructive. Good to know.

 

Poland longest servitude was under Germans. it started in the Middle Ages, Soviet Russia meant in fact for Poland, Soviet Poland, USSR was run by a Georgian for many years, not even a Russian, the founder of KGB in its first form was a Polak, Dzherzinski, the founder of Red Army was an Ukrainian, Trotsky. Russian Empire was a Christian kingdom. Among other noticeable soviets who were Polaks: Rokossovki, the mastermind of Bagration offensive (Kursk battle, etc). Communism was a french-german movement, strongly formalized by german philosophers (Marx) and did travel from West to East into Russian Empire through Poland, with some key figures (Rosa Luxemburg, Karl Radek).

Two christian kingdoms fought the Turks and Tatars actively by end of Middle Ages: Poland and Russia.
Point is the Catholics hated the Orthodox as much or more than the Muslims, hence the thousand years old anti-russian hatred in western Europe.
For a reminder, in 1204, the 4th Crusade, which goal was to retake Jerusalem and Palestine, was diverted by the greediness of the Carolingian kingdoms into a sack of Constantinople. The attack of Constantinople was seen with much irony by the Turks/Tatars and Arabs: christians attacking christians... 1204 was hence the real year of the fall of Constantinople. The empire was looted and divided in small competing catholic realms ("Latin" states/kingdoms) who didn't last long, and it never recovered.
Carolingian western kingdoms couldn't care less. In 1453 when the shrinked Constantinople did fall and St Sophia became a mosque, the ones who mourned the event were the Russians, that's when the Orthodox russian church proclamed itself as the heir of Constantinople ie. "the 3rd Rome". Western catholic kingdoms didn't give a toss about the fall of Constantinople.

Nowadays americans and the anglospheric protestant based countries behave in exactly the same way: a staunch hysterical hate of the Orthodox, ie. Christians: Russia, Serbia, and alliances with muslims: Saudi Arabia, Qatar. In order to regime change Syria, they have worked with jihadists, and so two millenaries old christian communities have been wiped out of Syria after Irak. USA works together with Azeri, Israeli and Turks in order to crush Armenia, the oldest christened country in the world.

american christianity is mostly protestant, and in Europe, Reformation caused a huge war Catholic/Protestants, which in the aftermath induced a hatred of Protestants for Catholics. Given the fact that Middle-Eastern Christianity is either Orthodox or Catholic, the hatred against them is reinforced. Basically: USA and their vassals have been in bed with Muslims (Saudi, Qatar) against the oldest Christian communities remaining in the world, without any scruples.

War on Afghanistan was of course not a war againts muslim terrorism, the 11.09.2001 bombing in New York was done by Saudis (Ben Laden....) but it was a practical excuse for launching a "reshape" of Middle East and to have a base near Iran, Central Asia and China. In the meanwhile Islamic State emerged in Irak, Muslim Brotherhood extended into Northern Africa. Then the always smart Americans destroyed Libya, hence removing a lock for jihadism through Qatari money and it has spread into sub-saharian Africa from there.

Americans are some kind of virus, or a cancer of the european civilization and christianity.

 

The bulk of the refugees are from the middle east. What you're talking about aren't refugees, but immigrants. And when we lob it all together, STILL the biggest part of the pie are refugees from the middle east.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_migrant_crisis#:~:text=According to the United Nations,top ten refugee-producing countries
Syrian 29% 28%
Other 26% 28%
Afghanistan 14% 15%
Iraq 10% 11%
Albanian 5% 2%
Eritrea 3% 3%
Iran 2% 3%
Kosovo 5% –
Nigeria 2% 4%
Pakistan 4% 4%

It changes a lot. First of all YOU do not know what you're talking about. And the scale of terror attacks that has nothing to do with Islam even though those people who do it, think so is FAR and FAR lower then the amount of far right wing attacks in Europe. There are over 60 racist far right wing crimes made ... EVERY DAY in Germany, and murdering random people of color to even politicians is part of it. They also target the free press.


Murdered a politician
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Walter_Lübcke

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-right-wing-criminality-at-a-record-high/a-57421079
The minister expressed concerns over increasing incidences of politically motivated crimes, especially those carried out by right-wing extremists, such as the murder of 11 young people with immigrant heritage in the city of Hanau in February last year.

Some 23,064 crimes were counted as right-wing extremist, an increase of 5.7% over the previous year.

There is a massive difference with the idea of having a support for a death penalty for whatever reason, and being a vigilante judge jury and executioner.
/facepalm

You say there is no real difference as in there is no real difference between the SA and the SS.... but the fact is... the difference is massive. The simple fact is that in almost all Muslim nations where sharia law is the only law and is full with devoted Muslims to that cause, that there is no such habit as killing the infidel. They are almost all a safe destinations for a vacation.

Before Trump started to harass Iran military and also economically, as in the time under Obama... even that country was a rather safe vacation destination. You might get picked up for speaking your mind and all because it's an oppressive regime.... but such a thing has nothing to do with Islam. They even arranged Jews to be part in their political arena by law.

you go source that.

This isn't related to Islam at all.

This is on par with the US being an utterly violet thug in the world. They kill around with impunity, and lie around who they killed all the time. Powel, a 4 star general (top of my head) flat out lied at the UN / to the world that Saddam had antrax. Among other lies: they killed reporters of reuters and sold us something else. The soldier who told the truth was sentenced to 35 years of prison (Manning). Last incident was that IS blew up a dozen soldiers at the Kabul Airport. As a reprisal, the US droned an aid worker to death with half a dozen of his children, and they sold it as killing a terrorist with some collateral damage. I can lob these lies as "these brown muslim lives don't matter anyways". Racism is a massive problem in the US, and it shows how their military kills around abroad. Black people in the US get lynched to death by cops over virtually nothing, while massive of people "support the blue" with doing such things. Support the blue = support the troops.. no matter who they torture around. Shall I post abu griab pictures? Torturing around in Cuba? Black sites in Poland where torturing goes on as well?

The list is endless.

You can say all that about Muslims and their religion. Christians and people of Christian heritage as simple still far more violent. Maybe you should look up who are the biggest producers of weapons of mass destruction and weapons in general. Who has the biggest armies and who is actually using them. At the bottom of the line, it's always and always the Christian dominated west. All you can reply against that, is that they don't kill over religious believes, but because they got other "reasons", while it doesn't make them less violent at all.

 

This comes from the idea that they regard themselves to be superior due to their believe besides of having a white skin. A skin color given by God as well their superior culture giving them the right to rule over the "animal" kingdom and what not.

 

Yes, I'm including illegal immigrants. The number you quote are asylum seekers, a lot of people just come and don't bother to ask for papers.

A lot of far right "crimes" are a piece of ham, racial slurs written on a mosque. They're mixing murders and graffitis and saying "the real danger is far right". So you got what for far right ? Breivik ? The murderer of Lübcke ? For those two crimes I could quote dozens and dozens of murders, terrorist attacks commited by muslims. Stop mixing murders with stupid graffitis, in one case there is some people who lost their life and in another case there is just at best emotionnal damage.
I don't deny those crimes exist and they're morally reprehensible, but we should compare death for death.
The only thing I find claim that far right terrorism is rising (without actually speaking of the number of death), but remain a tiny fraction of terrorism worldwide. I would be very curious of what would be "far right terrorism" without USA.

I searched for the number of death of terrorism per source of terrorism and found nother that this infography :
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/fatalities-from-terrorism
The only thing we learn and with no surprize is that islamic countries have much more terrorism, with two exception : USA and Colombia. Christian countries even far right ones in their vast majority have much less terrorism death.

Maybe, but I don't want to do anything to with people who support people like Muhammad, or people who support death penalty for apostates and blasphemers.

Yes, excepted than no.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Copts
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Yazidis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Ahmadis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination_against_atheists#Muslim-majority_countries
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism_in_Pakistan#Decline_and_persecution

I did

Yes, that's the reason they don't get too much problem with ISIS fools, in western country they get rights, in their native country they got torture (not something I support.

I never claimed that I supported those policiers, and it's a whole other matter.

A handfull of western countries in fact, Hungary never went in war, neither easter countries, they got rather at the bad side of colonialism, victim of ottoman slavery and colonization. Furthermore, your claim is highly debatable, you're circling, just quoting the USA, but forget a large part of the the christian world, would Peru be subjugated to the same criticism ? No. Norway ? No. Sweden ? No.
Your criticism go more around countries like USA, France, UK, criticism that may be justified, but most of those countries are more liberal than christian.
It remain that it's better to be an apostate christian in a christian country than being an apostate muslims in a muslim country. I don't pretend than living in Hungary or Peru would be ideal, but I know where I would be left with my own ideas, not Pakistan, not Saudi Arabia but so called "dicatorships" like Hungary.

And considering the fact that the west is a producer of weapons. And ? Do you think that it make people who smash other people skulls with stones to please their bloodthirsty god suddenly more sympathetic ? Do you really think that it make totalitarian religious zealots that want to spread the blood of the apostate and the blasphemer more likeable ?

Islam is simple, it's about saying and thinking that Muhammed is a model of behavour. I know the behavour ot that man according to their own sources (Sahih Bukhari), I don't want anything to do with sociopath that think that kind of behavour is a model.

 

I am what you would call right wing and an atheist but admire Judeo-Christian values and recognize their benefit to our nation and oppose the left wing, marxist desires to eliminate them.

 

Nothing in the bible indicates white skin is superior to any other. Like I said, in spite of their religion.
“There is no longer Jew or Greek, there is no longer slave or free, there is no longer male and female; for all of you are one in Christ Jesus”

 

Ahh... "a lot". I quantified it all. And it's not "a lot". The top 5 shows +55% are directly coming from war torn countries. And those +55% come from countries where... the US is fighting wars. The US actually started the war in Iraq, and also in Afghanistan and has been hostile towards Syria for who knows how long. Them 3 countries cover that +55%.

One can only imagine how the world looks like refuge wise without the western countries -who are utterly dominated by white Christian people- starting wars against rather helpless 3rd world rather poor nations full with brown non Christians.

True. Still 3,365 are violent incidents according to my source, an 18% increase. That is 10 a day on average.
And this is just in Germany.

You're pushing goalposts here from Europe to world wide, when I showed that the far right wing violence in Europe ends up to be far greater then Muslim violence. I do think can take the liberty to push the goalpost as well, by lobbing in American right wing violence vs other nations.. and add those who get killed to the list of far right wing violence.

Maybe, but I don't want to do anything to with people who support people like Muhammad, or people who support death penalty for apostates and blasphemers.

Copts are legally protected in Egypt by it's government. A government who criminalized that Copt persecution by lunatics.
With that it's not any different from some German violent far right nationalists out to get some brown Muslims.

Same thing with Yazidis who lived rather ok under Assad, all things considering who Assad is.
It all changed when the US first let ISIS spawn under their watch in Iraq, and then pushed ISIS across the border into Syria where the Yazidis lived.
And so it's American war policies are the cause of their persecution. It's not the cause of Syrian policies.

You have not sourced how Muslims themselves are not the biggest victims of Muslim extremism.

Your theme of "the turks use to deny their genocide of assyrian christians, pontic greeks and armernian." is not related to Islam at all.

Genocide against the Armenians are also of a whole different matter. So when you take that liberty to push the goalpost, so can I....
Bottom of the line remains that the western countries, dominated by white Christians or people with a white Christian heritage are the most violent of all.
They are the ones who got the most WMD's and the biggest/most factories for other war machines.... BY FAR.
They are the ones who endlessly show up to rage war all over the globe, if they aint the ones exporting their weapons.

So??? ISIS isn't even in control of a country. And the Taliban hasn't gone to war with other countries.It never stopped you. Orban even lobs all refugees of war torn countries with Al Qaida terrorists. So I'm perfectly in my right to "cherry pick" a handful of western countries. Also,.. you can't go like Muslims do not fit in with the culture of our Christian heritage, to on the other hand deny it's all that Christian. That's not a honest argument.

I really do not care about who is totalitarian or democratic... bottom line is who rages them wars with what kind of budgets and who produces these war machines. And it's the white western nations who are dominated by their Christian heritage. And it's the other way around... that some smash in a skull with a stone doesn't make a drone pilot killing an innocent aid working with his 6 children any less violent.

You keep saying such things even though we all know you can't debunk the argument that almost all sharia loving nations are lovely tourist destinations.
You are at a loss why your perception isn't how the reality is.

 

There is a firm believe that mankind has been created from gods image. That image comes with a skin color for some, making them mankinds and others lesser then mankind.

 

Because they speak of people who applied asylum, but a lot of people who come in Europe just don't apply asylum. The problem of those statistics is that they use linguistics subtilities to justify an ideology.

You didn't show anything, where did you proved that the far right caused more death by attacks than islamic terrorism ? Nowhere. Between Charlie Hebdo attacks, london bombing, Madrid bombing, Barcelone car attack, sweden car attacks and so on, I can quote you hundred of death caused by islamic terrorism in Europe. For only France, between 1979 and 2019, we got the number of 317 killed, more than any number of far right terrorist attacks you even quoted.
I found that number for France : 63 % death of terrorist attack are death because of islamic attacks since 2013, for a population that represent not even 10 % of french people.
(source in french :https://www.ouest-france.fr/terrori...miste-tue-167-000-personnes-en-40-ans-6606961)

I don't claim that, I claim that a lot of death in islamic countries belong also to religious minorities such coptic, yezidis, hindus.

Please, that's the muslim minority that slaughtered the christian minority, that's exactly the same thing nazis did, and we could argue that some influential nazis such Goebbels or Himmler where anti christian, thing we couldn't claim for that time Turkey.

You're methodology is about saying that producing weapons is a form of violence itself, which is doubtfull by itself, we could also determine that the most violent countries are the one with the most terrorist attacks, the most murder rates, the countries that apply death penalty for religious reasons. To determine which country is the most violent, you have to pick a relatively subjective standart to claim on which point you determine what constitue the most violent countries. To fit your agenda, you decide to take weapons exporters, I could consider weapons importers, homicide rate, countriers with the most terrorist attack. You're criterion is absolutly opportunistic.

Maybe because some of them are.

I never claimed that, but why the hungarian should accept some islamists on their territory becaue Obama liked to drone kill

You keep saying such things even though we all know you can't debunk the argument that almost all sharia loving nations are lovely tourist destinations.
You are at a loss why your perception isn't how the reality is.[/QUOTE]

Yes, it's well known that Pakistan and Nigeria are among the safest destination in the world, and it's not only about security, why the hell would you want to share destiny with people who think that marrying 9 YO is OK, that smashing people skulls with stones is some holy sacred act and that killing apostates and blasphemers is the summit of spirituality.

 

Tortured interpretation of the text of the bible can produce anything you like. But thats the tortured interpretation not the religion itself.