Hungary’s Orban: 9/11 Proved ‘Christian Civilization Is Something We Must Fight for

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by mswan, Sep 13, 2021.

  1. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    To die for Christ and the Cross is considered martyrdom, to kill though is a sin. That contrasts with Islam, since they consider dying while killing others is martyrdom. But that's because there's a political aspect to Islam, which doesn't exist in Christianity.
     
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  2. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member

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    During the crusades and inquisition, the Roman Catholic church, and politics was one and same and stands as a good example as to why religion and politics must be kept separate. The 1st Amendment in the Constitution flat out says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion".

    As for "To die for Christ and the Cross is considered martyrdom" thousands of unfaithful were fooled into thinking that simply dying in a crusade would somehow translate into "dying for Christ". It does not. The Bible is very clear about what is needed for salvation, and being a member of an army is not one of them.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2021
  3. mswan

    mswan Newly Registered

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    You should probably be careful about looking into your own past. You might find you’re descended from some pretty nasty groups yourself.

    BTW, genetic research shows about 4% genetic inheritance from the Huns in present day Hungarians. Not surprising I guess given the number of different invading tribes using Hungary as a parade group over the centuries.

    https://dailynewshungary.com/genetic-study-proves-hungarians-descendants-huns/
     
  4. dixon76710

    dixon76710 Well-Known Member

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    SA is separation of church and state Islamic style, in contradiction of the Koran, Hadiths and 1300 years of Islamic precedence of Islamic Caliphates applying Islamic doctrine as law.
    The deal struck between Abd al-Wahhab and Muhammad bin Saud in the 1700s marked the demise of the Islamic Caliphate ruling over Saudi Arabia. Thats why the likes of Al Qaeda and Isis oppose the Saud rule over Saudi Arabia even though for the most part they strictly adhere to all other Islamic doctrine except the Islamic governance called for in the Koran and Hadiths.
     
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  5. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That sounds very prejudicial! Anyway the Hungarians are part Hun, part German. Or maybe it's the other way around, and it's the Germans that are part Hun, because that's what the British were calling them in WWI.

    Here's something of interest. In the Greco/Roman world all the Europeans were called Franks - that is with the exception of the Hungarians. They had the special distinction of being called by their own name.

    So let's say BRAVO ORBAN, and give him a hand.:applause: You were voted in by the Hungarian people, so stand by them and bow to no one - and especially to George Soros.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2021
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  6. dixon76710

    dixon76710 Well-Known Member

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    Back then bibles were written in Latin. People didnt read their own language, let alone Latin. Christian Doctrine became whatever the Catholic church said was doctrine. Invention of the printing press, the spread of literacy and the widespread translation and publication of the bible lead to the Protestant reformation and demonstrating the illegitimacy of the divine rule of the Catholic Church. Just as Thomas Paine used the text of the bible in his pamphlet, "Common Sense" to demonstrate the illegitimacy of the divine rule of monarchs, and the legitimacy of government of, by and for the people to set off our revolution.
     
  7. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not prejudicial at all. I find it comical for people descended from invaders to be wringing their hands over other groups of people entering their country. Their country wouldn't exist if a bunch of nomads hadn't conquered and settled it centuries ago.

    Also, lol @ you bringing George Soros into this.

    Also also, I doubt that all Europeans were at any time all called Franks. The Romans did call non-Roman people barbarians, however, in mimicry and derision of how they perceived other languages to sound. Naturally, as imperial conquerors, the Romans tended to belittle and dehumanize those they opposed.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2021
  8. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    As an Atheist I'm not in the fight for Christian civilization. ;)
     
  9. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If the crusaders were sacrificing their lives to save the Christians in the Middle East and open Jerusalem to pilgrimages, then I'm sure God took it into account. Whether they achieved theosis/divinity and united with Him, would be dependent on the condition of their hearts as well as their state of repentance when they die.

    I know the Orthodox Church has a 2 year penance for anyone who kills another whether in war or through abortion. For this reason the Byzantine Empire gave land to mercenaries from Europe or Armenia who joined their army. The recruitment ended when the Churches fell into schism, so the Europeans joined the Crusades.
     
  10. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member

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    God will be the judge, but the truth is that pope Orban made a promise that no human can make. He told people they will have their eternal life and their sins forgiven if they fight for him. Forgiveness of sins is something only Christ can do. The pope also lied when he promised them land, gold and silver. He'd say anything to get people to fight for him.

    However, Christ taught that salvation is by faith alone, and not by works. This is repeated over and over in the Bible. The will be judged for his lies and for misleading thousands of men away from God.
     
  11. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It has to do with Islam. Muslims cannot convert since it's a capital offense. I heard one Muslim say, "we consider ourselves under persecution unless we are in the majority". If they become the majority, then they can change the existent laws and institutions into sharia.

    This would mean their high birth rate is deliberate. This is also why Islamic nations will never accept any Muslim back who has left. The Muslims must remain in the foreign country they immigrated to, because once a Muslim lives on a piece of land, it has become Islamic holy land and must always be under Islam. If the Muslim suffers because of it, it is considered their fate in life.


    Because if it wasn't for George Soros, no one would know who Orban is. It's a fight to the end between them - a Hungarian duel.:roflol:


    It was the Greeks that coined the term 'barbarians'. probably from the way their languages sounded when they spoke.

    I was thinking though of later on, when the Crusaders first appeared in the Byzantine world. The Greeks still refer to the Europeans as Franks, and to themselves as Romans since they were part of the Eastern Roman Empire. Just goes to show you how things change, and yet how things never change.

     
  12. mswan

    mswan Newly Registered

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    Oh but you are, more than you know. If you were born and raised in a Western country you were raised in a social cultural framework developed by Judeo-Christian traditions over the last 1700 years. You may decide you don’t believe in Christ, or any other god for that matter, but you cannot rid yourself of the way Christian values and institutions have shaped you.
     
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  13. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Don't believe everything you've been told about the Catholic church.. I'm not saying the RCC hasn't had its faults, but like everything in Christianity, it goes through times when evil prevails, and times when the Church triumphs.

    As an example, when the 4th Crusade was called, the Pope told them not to attack any Christian city. Yet when the Franks were short on money, and couldn't pay the Venetians for their travel expenses, they attacked a Croatian city. Later with the excuse of installing a claimant to the Byzantine throne, they attacked Constantinople.

    The Franks completely ravaged the city and stole everything - even the relics which are now in churches throughout Europe. When the emissary told the Pope, instead of telling him the truth, he told him that installing the claimant to the throne would reunite the Churches. It wasn't until a year later that the Pope found out the truth and horror of what the Franks had done.

    "No wonder the Greeks call us dogs" the Pope said, and yet to this day, the Greek Church believes the Pope was to blame for the sacking of Constantinople.
     
  14. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well, from what I hear about the growing numbers of people leaving religion, it will not be a day too far off when the majority of people will either be secular or Islamic. And, the secular will outnumber the Islamic.
     
  15. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You're judging all Muslims on what you allegedly "heard one Muslim say," to quote your words. Not that Muslims even have to convert in order to be part of another country! Especially a liberal democracy! But I guess Orban is trying to be like Trump and appeal to ethnocentric nationalism, religion, and fear of the other to benefit himself politically. It's very fascistic, very Hitlerian.
     
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  16. mswan

    mswan Newly Registered

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    Good luck with that. If Christian Western Civilization is destroyed you’ll live in a very different world, a world you will not like.
    This has nothing to do with Trump. Not everything in the world revolves around your obsession with Trump.
     
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  17. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Wrong, unfortunately. Orban is an example of trumpism being exported to the rest of the world. It is a real problem.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2021
  18. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yes, it was called Christendom and it fell long ago. History is back that-a-way.
     
  19. mswan

    mswan Newly Registered

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    Orban was elected Prime Minister before Trump even thought of running, and has been a nationalist since the collapse of the Soviet Union. Trump ha nothing to do with this.
     
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  20. Tejas

    Tejas Banned

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    To kill in war is NOT a sin.

    Many Christian martyrs killed and were killed in wars.

    .
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2021
  21. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that is true. Unfortunately people are sinners by default, and fighting in a war does not wash those sins away. Only faith in Christ can wash them away. A Christian person can fight and kill in a war and it will not take his/her salvation away.
     
  22. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Beautifully said! :applause:

    Of course killing in war is a sin. I don't know where you get your ideas from? Anyone who killed someone in war or had an abortion cannot receive the Eucharist for 2 years as penance in the Orthodox Church. This is why the Byzantines who were highly devout, used mercenaries from Europe to do their fighting and in return they would get land. This is also why Christian priests and ministers do not carry guns when in the army.

    I know that Saint Joan of Arc was wounded, but she never killed anyone - even though she led the men in battle to end the war. Saint Paisius who was in the army in WWII, would face enemy fire to save the wounded, but he could never kill since he was highly devout at the time. This doesn't mean that someone who does kill in war, cannot become a Saint and a martyr if they repent and start growing in Grace, only that those who are on a high level cannot kill.

    Probably the greatest martyr of all the Saints was Saint George. He was a Roman soldier so did he kill before he became a Christian? We don't know. All we know is that his torture and sufferings were intent. There are also other warrior Saints, and the same can probably be said for them.

    Personally, if someone I loved was in the military, I would pray for two things. One for him to be protected from harm, and the other to guide and keep him from killing another person.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2021
  23. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Stop being so biased and partisan. Try examining the facts and drawing conclusions from them instead. You'll have a much more accurate and complete worldview. Some current events for you:

    Viktor Orbán and Donald Trump—a Dangerous Friendship

    United States President Donald Trump praised Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán and thanked him for his friendship, in a letter dated August 12. The letter was published on Orbán’s Facebook page on August 31. Weeks prior, Fox News’s Tucker Carlson visited the Hungarian prime minister for an extensive interview. This developing fond relationship aggravates liberals in the United States. But the relationship is concerning for reasons neither the left nor the right understand.

    ...

    An additional note below Mr. Trump’s letter reads: “Great job on Tucker (Fox). Proud of you!” In the Tucker Carlson interview, Orbán stressed rejecting illegal migration, the importance of national values, and the right to make sovereign decisions. Unlike most of the media, Carlson portrayed Hungary as overwhelmingly free. He asked: “Who is freer? In what country are you more likely to lose your job for disagreeing with the ruling class’s orthodoxy? The answer is pretty obvious, though. If you’re an American, it is painful to admit it as we have discovered.” Carlson was referring to the cancel culture in the U.S. Yet Orbán is also accused of dismantling core democratic institutions.

    During the coronavirus crisis, Orbán passed a law that allows him to rule by decree. In “Coronavirus and the Holy Roman Empire,” Trumpet editor in chief Gerald Flurry warned in 2020: “Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán is also growing more autocratic in this crisis. Hungary was only mildly affected by coronavirus, yet on March 30, Hungary’s parliament gave Orbán dictatorial powers. Now parliament is closed, elections are canceled, and anyone spreading ‘false’ information can be imprisoned for five years. Democracy has been replaced by rule of decree.”

    ... Viktor Orbán and Donald Trump--a Dangerous Friendship | theTrumpet.com

    Orban has set up the kind of authoritarian rule that Trump dreamed, and probably still dreams, of having here. But more to the point, Trump (and others in his orbit) continue to have a massive influence over Orban.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2021
  24. mswan

    mswan Newly Registered

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    With all due respect you are absolutely wrong. What Hungarians do in Hungary has nothing to do with Trump. You are obsessed with Trump and your whole world is seen through that lens.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2021
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  25. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Of course it won't take away one's salvation, if their heart is pure and they're in a state of repentance when they die. This doesn't mean though that killing in any situation is not a major sin.

    When you kill someone, you don't know what state their soul was in, so by shortening their life, you lessened their chance of achieving salvation. It has to be a major sin regardless of how good a reason you might have had for killing him.
     

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