Hungary’s Orban: 9/11 Proved ‘Christian Civilization Is Something We Must Fight for

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by mswan, Sep 13, 2021.

  1. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member

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    Nonsense. 5.4 million died during the recent Congo civil war, but you don't mention it because the participants were not Christians. People are violent by nature, and you can find savagery in every race. The crusades ended a long time ago, and Christians have not fought religious wars in a long time. Muslims, however, are doing it right now.

     
  2. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    So? Sharia law abiding Saudi Arabia and the likes of them governments around the globe also claim that ISIS interpretation of the Koran aint right.... never stopped right wingers claiming the interpretation of the likes of ISIS is what the Koran stands for. Never stopped ISIS as well. And these biblical ways caused a slaughter among natives, while also causing Christianity to be the most dominant religion across the world.
     
  3. dixon76710

    dixon76710 Well-Known Member

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    1300 years of Islams 1400 year history was characterized by Islamic Caliphates applying Islamic doctrine as law. Waging war against the unbelievers. The other 100 years was the exception. The likes of ISIS follow a literal interpretation of the Koran and Hadiths. Twisted and tortured interpretations of bible are required to wage war.
     
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  4. mswan

    mswan Newly Registered

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    Really? So what makes you think Saudi Arabia’s interpretation is the correct one?
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2021
  5. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    Source it. So far I sourced that the bulk of the immigrants are refugees from war torn Muslim nations, and made a side note how massive the roll is of the western Christian countries in that war.


    You're pushing goalposts again from now just violence to specific murder. When I take into account right wing western violence in the Middle East, than we all know that a few 100 deaths is not worth mentioning.

    We were discussing sharia law as the only law in Muslim nations. And these examples are a violation to the laws of them countries who have sharia law. Your just pushing the goalpost of sharia law, to how some individual terrorist sees it, like a right winger thinks about Muslims defying not just the law but their faith according to the clerks/religious experts who interpret the Koran.

    What please. The theme of "the turks use to deny their genocide of assyrian christians, pontic greeks and armernian." remains not related to Islam at all, but ethnic nationalistic. You dragging in nazi's doesn't make it Islamic.

    I never said that producing is a form of violence itself. It is about saying who are the most violent.
    And it's not just about export, it is also about budget of the army, and if they are involved in warfare.

    You for instance can say a lot about China, their budget of the army, the amount of people in the army, the amount of weapons they produce and WMD's they made.
    But unlike the US, they are not the ones showing up starting fights or joining in.

    I can't say I see that distinction Orban makes while dragging in how great them lot are who follow the Christian religion.

    Sounds like you would deny Anne Frank an asylum from nazi's and think nothing off it when you hear she got killed in the holocaust, but are partially to blame for her death. This idea to not be part of a genocide etc at all costs, caused all kinds of counties to be part of the "Refugee Convention"... giving refugees rights. The EU supports it, and Hungary joined that EU fully aware what to bow down to.

    The safety of those destinations is not because the sharia loving governments make it unsafe for tourists.
    There are plenty of countries who are utterly unsafe and predominantly Christian, like South Africa and Haiti.
    Your idea that sharia law, according to the clergy, the experts on the Koran, and so law according to their faith is the issue... simply not the case.

    As for your child marriages. It also happens in the US.
    https://populationmatters.org/news/2021/04/child-marriage-us-where-outrage
    10 year olds are send off to marriage.... pot kettle much?
     
  6. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    9-11 proves that killing in the name of God's is evil, we must fight any and all theocracies from ever growing roots here
     
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  7. mswan

    mswan Newly Registered

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    One of the greatest accomplishments in history is the separation of church and state.
     
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  8. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    Congo is almost 100% Christian. It did not happen with kind words. I put up post #12 with some pictures. The above 3 are actually from Congo, showing exactly how good Christians butchered around.

    Orban says he got cultural memories of servitude under first the Ottoman Empire.
    Being part of an empire run by Christians was far worse... for non white / non white Christians.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2021
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  9. mswan

    mswan Newly Registered

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    I’ll trust Hungarians to decide that for themselves,
     
  10. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    Not true. They raged war, but not because the other side were unbelievers. They did not care about other believes. Spain under the Caliphate gave room for Jews and Christians to live in. Such a thing was totally common throughout the Ottoman empire. It was the Christians who started the inquisition against everybody who wasn't specifically Catholic when they took Spain back. Such a thing among Christians was exceptionally common throughout their kingdoms. It caused massive amount of Jews to flee to the Caliphate. Such persecutions still happened on a large scale at the end of the 1700's in France. The Orange walks -a Christian celebration of having persecuted their neighbors- still cause people to be upset in Ireland.

    We all know how Pro Jewish Israeli's are keen to point out how many Jews left muslim nations, and dishonestly claim they got ethnically cleansed. Those are Jews who lived there and magically survived that "waging war against the unbeliever" for +1000 years. Iraq and Syria also had massive amounts of non Muslims living among them during them +1000 years of "waging war against the unbeliever" ... until the US let ISIS spawn under their watch.

    According to the clergy, the experts on those interpretations, them ISIS people got it so wrong that they support the death penalty against them. That is the reality and we all know that this is the reality. Yet you just still parrot far right wing white (yes, I am going there) nationalistic fake news. It's just dishonest. I can just as easy can claim that seeing mankind as god image, is a white theme and the reason why they treat non white people as animals who you can sell, kill whatever. The racism is still a total theme in how black people are overwhelmingly still get discriminated in the US. We all witnessed how plenty fanatics here supported the blue, lynching a helpless handcuffed black man to death for no reason.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2021
  11. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member

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    Your pictures are over a hundred years old. The recent civil wars in Congo involved 10 countries and 25 separate groups of fighters (hence the name "African World War") and while most of the local victims were Christian (at least by birth), the war had nothing to do with religion. Now, however, they ARE hunting down and killing Christians in Congo.

    It seems when you see a problem, the first thing you do is check whether or not the nation has Christian majority, and if it does, then you blame the issue on Christianity. Christians are not killing in the name of Christianity (crusaders did), but radical muslims are doing it, and yet you say nothing about that, so your anti-Christian bias is fairly obvious.
     
  12. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    The wide consensus.
     
  13. mswan

    mswan Newly Registered

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    OK then. So if someone yells Alau Akbar while he slits your thought it’s not because of the Quran. Good to know.
     
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  14. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why would the Pope speak to Orban about laws against propagating anything, and especially laws that would be against Christian beliefs?
    Orban is Catholic. Isn't it traditional to kiss the Pope's ring - which Orban probably did when he greeted him? Shaking the Pope's hand would be highly disrespectful considering the Pope's position.
    I don't like Hungary or any nation closing their border since the migrants are then stuck in Greece and are threatening its very existence - which of course is Erdogan's intent.

    The problem is not the Syrian refugees who are able to assimilate, and who are welcomed in Greece. The problem is the economic migrants from Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh, etc., who were given fake Syrian passports by the Turks. This doesn't mean that economic migrants do not have a right to immigrate, but no one knows who they are or what their intent might be since many do come with an agenda.

    In the refugee camps they resent the Syrians and they do rape and so forth, especially the Afghans, so they have to be separated. The worse is that some migrants have been caught setting the fires that have burned the forests, homes, farms and animals in Evia. Empty gasoline cans were found all over the burnt forests.

    It doesn't rain in Greece in the summer, so the trees that were burned were planted by school children and it took 40 years for them to grow. So why would anyone want these migrants in their country when they're a threat to the very existence of the people living there? No one knows how many spies, terrorists and criminals Turkey smuggled into Greece with the migrants.

    You say the Muslims suffer as well from the Islamists, and yet the genocide which averaged about 300 hundred a day was towards Christians, not towards Muslims.






     
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  15. mswan

    mswan Newly Registered

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    Orban recognizes what most of the western world ignore: we are in a conflict of civilization. Islam is incomparable with, and hostile, to Western Civilization.
     
  16. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Correction here:

    The intent of the Crusades was not to kill Muslims. They were called to free Jerusalem and the Christian population from the Seljuk Turks. The Turks were persecuting them and not allowing pilgrimages to the Holy Sites, something which at that time was important not only for spiritual reasons, but also for miracles and physical cures.

    That the Europeans decided to hold on to the lands they had fought for in the ME and refused to give it back to the Emperor is another story. In the end the Crusaders destroyed Constantinople and stole everything, including its relics. They can now be found in the churches all over Europe.

    I don't know if you like history, but on the island of Rhode is the castle of the Knights Hospitaler. It was rebuilt by Mussolini who had hoped he would retire there. You can walk along the street with the different flags representing the different languages of the knights.


     
  17. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member

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    I never said that was the primary intent. I said crusaders killed the name of Christianity. It WAS a religious war. They were a prime example of a religious war.

    The primary intent of crusades to Israel (not all were to Israel) was to recover Jerusalem from Islamic rule, so yes, Muslims were going to get killed, but killing per se was not the intent. Muslims could have surrendered the area without a fight, and they would not have been killed.

    They rode into war carrying the Christian cross and thinking that dying in such war was rewarded by a place in paradise.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2021
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  18. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Notme - A few years back Merkel refused to allow Erdogan to speak to the Turks in Germany, so as not to arouse them against their fellow Turks who had assimilated and were getting threats. So if Muslims are not allowed to assimilate, then wouldn't they be considered a threat?
     
  19. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Assimilate how, exactly?

    Muslims have been maligned ever since 9/11. The way you're thinking about them is still linked to that event and the heaps of xenophobic paranoia about Muslims that grew out of it.
     
  20. mswan

    mswan Newly Registered

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    There are people who were warning about the dangers of Islam long before 9/11.
     
  21. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I never said there weren't Muslim-hating xenophobes and paranoiacs around before that, but it wasn't nearly as widespread before 9/11 as it was after. There is no comparison.
     
  22. mswan

    mswan Newly Registered

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    Not Muslim-hating, but people who recognize an existential threat.
     
  23. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    People who invariably perceive a threat from other people who are different in some superficial way, in this case having a different system of religious beliefs and practices.
     
  24. mswan

    mswan Newly Registered

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    I trust the Hungarians to be in the best position to make decisions. They feel threatened by Islam and I think they have reason to. Good for you Orban, protect your country.
     
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  25. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ironic for a country full of people descended from the Huns.
     

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