Obviously the people involved were not alone. Hard to get impregnated all by your lonesome. All I hear here is excuse making, as you want to excuse the irresponsibility involved. Can people not get free birth control anymore? I thought between the gov't and planned parenthood, it is possible not to get pregnant these days. If these people can come up with the means to get to an abortion clinic, why could they not come up with the means to prevent the pregnancy in the first place. Excusing irrresponsiblity is all that you are actually doing here. And you know it. So, we, enough of us, have no value for human life whatsoever, and we will all agree to take it, because we only value our own life, or perhaps a few that we care about. Other than that, throw em to the dogs. At least admit it. Don't try to hide the lack of valuing life behind these absurd excuses. If it were left up to just me, I would certainly allow abortions for convenience. But the tubes would be tied at the same time. That way the murdering for convenience would stop, at least in regards to that irresponsible person. For unlike these people that want unfettered abortions for convenience, some people actually do value human life. People that do value life are much harder to be dragged into these useless incessant wars as well. So sue me for placing great value on human life. I wish I could sue you for not valuing it. For people like you are a grave danger to life itself.
These people who support abortion for convenience just don't value human life other than their own, or a select group. They don't care about life. That is the fact of the matter. And these are dangerous people, and of the gravest danger. For life is involved here. With modern birth control there is hardly any reason at all for abortion for the sake of convenience. And so, unborn human beings pay the price for their irresponsibility. It really is the greatest evil in this world. These are fundamentally evil people, and dangerous to human life. Any society that will allow abortions, when we have the means of easy birth control is one sick society, for they do not value life. What is more important than human life? Nothing should be, but obviously having a choice to murder an innocent person, is more important. This is actually true insanity. The devaluing of human life reverberates throughout a society. That society is more apt to have police that shoot first and ask questions later. That society is more apt to indulge in pointless wars that blow children and innocents into pieces, for all of this comes from devaluing human life. As much as I detest organized religion, at least religion helped to protect the unborn for a long time, for religion teaches not only personal responsibility but social responsibility as well. As we became less religious, we started to murder more and more of the unborn, for the sake of nothing but convenience. Most atheists believe in the right of the female to murder. Religions supported those who would try to get out of military service due to matters of conscience, that came from religion. Hard to make that claim from an atheistic stance. These pro abortionists are in reality supporting human irresponsibility. And the only life they really care about is their own. They are very dangerous people, which is proven by the number of the unborn humans they agreed to murder. We live in an incoherent nation. The female has the right to murder her unborn, because she owns her body, but others do not have the right to do drugs without being locked up, for they do not own their bodies. You cannot make this insanity up.
I place great value on human life, I wish freedom for every human life, I wish success for every human life, I wish prosperity for every human life, I wish a good education for every human life, I wish good caring parents for every human life, I wish liberty for every human life...... and you don't.
Have you ever thanked your mother for not aborting you for the "good of society"? I notice that all of you pre abortion people have already been born, and so you get to decide who is born now and who is aborted?? Unifier is absolutely right. This IS a chilling thread...and disgusting...you talk as if they're garbage being thrown out. Shame on you!
I place the value for human life above the liberty to take a human life. You don't seem to, so we are different. For human life itself should always trump taking it for mere convenience. Now, this may be a product of this brain being incapable of thinking clearly. And human life may be less important than being able to kill it for convenience. Yet I cannot coherently think that. I think you value human life, until someone needs to take it for convenience. Then, you lose some of that value. And you think the freedom to take a human life, is more important than human life. I cannot think in that manner, for I would have to change my value for human life. And for me, human life is of the greatest value, nothing trumps it. The only caveat I have would be in the case of self defense But then all of life is hardwired to defend its own life, for if not, life would have come to an end, and we would not be discussing this. Even the greatest pacifist will fight for its life when being choked to death by an aggressor, no matter what his intellectual beliefs are. Something else, more primordial than the intellect assumes control. And he cannot help it. A society that respected all life, that valued it more than anything else, would be quite a different society than one that did not place that as the highest value. Such a society would definitely made use of birth control, instead of just killing the unborn. I would wish for a society that indeed placed life as of the greatest value. But society is a mere reflection of what the each of us are inside, a reflection of our inner being. And obviously we are quite self centered brutal people on the inside, and so society reflects that reality. Obviously quite a few of us want to be able to kill the unborn, for personal convenience, and so that is what we do. Instead of being responsible beings, we demand to be irresponsible. Perhaps it is just easier to shirk responsibility? I guess so. But I don't have to agree with it.
You: Ignore war. Have no idea of what responsibility is....it isn't what YOU demand it be. Believe that "wishing" will solve all the worlds problems....a childish and unrealistic wish. Now: Why do you defend self defense for everyone but pregnant women?? You Me: Good question...but you will not think farther than that and the fact is that humans have always had unwanted pregnancies, humans have always had sex unwisely, humans will always be human.. Closing clinics, as the Righties IRRESPONIBLY do, puts access to Birth Control even farther from the reach of those who need it the most. Tell your Republican reps to quit acting so IRRESPONSIBLY and leave clinics alone so there will be less abortions. You Me: Your attempt to make all humans responsible is just plain silly, when have they been? Humans are so irresponsible they start wars that kill people! Are you going to stop that? It's not my job nor yours to excuse or not excuse other people's irresponsibility. Can't address the above ???
I am against all war, unless it actually is self defense. So, logically what I said about self defense would pertain to war as well. If it is unrealistic, to value human life, and to expect others to, then so be it. I shall remain unrealistic. That you would compare an abortion for convenience to self defense is incoherent. I am afraid I cannot debate something like this, when the other person is incoherent in his thought processes, so I will bid you a kind goodbye, and will keep your name in mind so as not to repeat the mistake again. Equating convenience to self defense was the deal breaker. I am not approaching this from a religious viewpoint for I detest religion. I am approaching it from a secular view, using logic, and a great value for human life as the ground. For this issue always boils down to the value of human life, or the lack of it.
Well you won't be the first to run out of here after having to face facts. If a fetus is a "person", the "life" you keep worshipping, then it has no right to cause harm to another. Pregnancy causes harm to the pregnant woman. So , just like YOU have the right to defend yourself from harm by another, so do pregnant women.
This would make more sense if we did in fact value human life above everything else, the reality is we don't. As long as we have wars, executions etc then it is plainly obvious that human life only has as much value as another places upon it. and of course you completely ignore the very relevant financial cost involved. It comes across that most pro-lifers seem to think that women who have abortions treat it like a Sunday morning stroll, but of course pro-lifers need to do this in order to promote their control ideology. I just love this continuous propaganda of lack of "personal responsibility" and "convenience", what pro-lifers can never see is that the woman who has an abortion could very well being doing the responsible thing. Unless you know the reasoning behind every single abortion that every single woman has had then your comment has about as much meaning as a raindrop in the ocean, what you consider a "convenience" is purely your own viewpoint, nothing more. This plainly shows a distinct lack of knowledge of women who are in desperate situations, where they barely have the money to provide for themselves (and any other children they may have). Of course the usual response of don't have sex then will now be put forward and this again will only show a distinct lack of reality. Yes we do, of which the safest is out of the reach of many, many people .. When the cost of IUD's and hormonal implants reaches the level of a condom and IF abortions are still as high as they are now THEN you might have a point, until then you don't. Do you actually know the failure rates of the various contraceptions? .. I suspect not. Again that is only your opinion Again that is only your opinion They are being taught that what happens within their body is theirs to control, what you want is a set of mindless drones who do what they are told, when they are told. There is nothing more irresponsible than withholding sex education from children, something that the right-wing conservative pro-lifers drool at the thought of. Take a look at the states with the highest teenage births, 6 of the top 10 have not provisions for comprehensive sex education. Have you even looked at what modern comprehensive sex education includes, I bet you haven't. Well as abortion has been with us since records began that cultivation has never existed. Emotional hyperbole as usual. Regardless of whether you admit to being a religious person or not your ideology is firmly rooted in religious dogma .. just how much respect do you have for the millions killed in various wars just for having a different ideology, just how much respect do you have for those executed .. but of course you can formulate arbitrary justification for those conveniences I'm sure.
The obvious is that you have no intention of actually debating the OP So you should be, you lie to yourself all the time. If it was anywhere near the truth it would help, it isn't and it doesn't BTW. Is this going to be another of your hit and run comments or will you actually engage in debate .. probably the first of those.
Opposed to the endless drivel pro-lifers copy from Lifenews or some other religiously motivated claptrap posing as "information" As sex = pregnancy is a bald faced lie then what ever reason she wants to give is her choice and none of your business. YOUR moral code that you want to force on others . .so much for all people being equal.
I just wish for once pro-lifers would actually get their facts right. PP clinics are in these areas because they offer those low paid women you care so little about essential medical services, of which abortion equates to 3% . .perhaps if those right-wing so called Republicans actually looked further than their bank balance it might help. Tell me smevins how is a woman 200% below the average income is supposed to afford the best and safest contraception, eg an IUD with a 0.8% typical use failure rate that cost around $800. You pro-lifers harp on about using contraception and keep talking about condoms without the slightest knowledge of the typical use failure rate of a condom (it's 15% BTW) so if you guys are really that interested in contraception you would be fighting and find ways to reduce the cost of the most effective., are you?
What complete and utter bovine crap, shows a distinct lack of any knowledge and a resistance to actually learn something.
I'm sure we can all pick and choose specific areas, cities or towns to show a bias, unfortunately for you PP is monitored quite closely as far as figures and funding is concerned .. guess what those official figures show that 3% of the total services offered by PP are abortion related. Here is an interesting little graph for you to look at and from a pro-life site - http://wholeworldinhishands.com/world/abortion-statistics-by-race.html and oh look "whites" account for 34% of abortions, "blacks" for 37% .. a 3% variance, but of course pro-lifers lump in the Hispanic abortions along side the "black" ones to give a false estimation that abortion is a "race" issue.
Yep, Planned Parenthood provided nearly 11.4 million medical services for 3 million people in 2009. Its 2011 fact sheet says it performed 332,278 abortion procedures in 2009. That would mean that roughly one out of every 10 clients received an abortion. furthermore PP receives two types of funding; the Title X Family Planning Program and Medicaid. About $70 million is Title X funding and about $293 million is Medicaid funding, which includes both federal and state money - According to the Department of Health and Human Services website, "by law, Title X funds may not be used in programs where abortion is a method of family planning." Medicaid funding is restricted by the Hyde Amendment to only abortion cases involving rape, incest or endangerment to the life of the mother.
News Flash : The birth control you refer to has a typical usage failure rate of 15%, where as IUD's have a typical usage failure rate of 0.8%, and it is false economy to think that providing "free" condoms works out cheaper than providing "free" IUD's . .so pro-lifers IF your real interest is in "saving" lives then just how much monetary value do you place on those lives?
Yet more hyperbole with little factual evidence. Abortion rates have been FALLING since 1980 and now stand at a lower rate than 1973. Abortion Rate in 1980 - 29.3 Abortion Rate in 2013 - 15.9 Abortion Rate in 1973 - 16.3 Source - http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/ab-unitedstates.html BTW: The USA abortion rate is STILL higher than Canada where there are no restrictions what so ever on abortion.
Hilarious .. You "Slate" another poster for using a "biased" source and then proceed to use life site news .. how hypocritical. furthermore Abby Johnson has been found to be a confirmed liar. She claimed she turned to pro-life after assisting a physician during an abortion procedure of a 13 week fetus, and yet according to medical records this abortion NEVER took place - In records filed with the Texas Department of State Health Services, Planned Parenthood reported that 15 abortions were performed that day, but none of the patients were more than 10 weeks pregnant; however, Johnson claims to have witnessed the termination of a 13-week fetus. When confronted Johnson with these discrepancies, she stuck to her story. Pressed for more details, though, she claimed for the first time publicly that the patient was a black woman. The only black patient seen that day was six weeks pregnant, according to records, but there is no reason for a doctor to use an ultrasound for such an early-term abortion. Even if one was used, writes Blakeslee, its hard to imagine how Johnson, who said she has seen hundreds of ultrasound pictures in her career, could mistake a one-quarter-inch-long embryo for a three-inch, thirteen-week fetus. Johnson suggested that the Planned Parenthood clinic altered its records. Its a convenient claim, because how does one disprove it? Of course Johnson hasnt been able to prove it, either but that wont matter to her true believers, who have been quite willing to overlook earlier glaring inconsistencies in her story. Ultimately, facts are irrelevant when it comes to this story, which amounts to an antiabortion parable. When you believe in a fables message, it doesnt matter whether its fiction.
Well frankly...if blacks make up 12% of our population, but account for 37% of abortions....meaning proportionally more black babies are being terminated then whites.....and seeing as blacks disproportionately commit more crime then whites....and disproportionately have a higher rate of poverty.....then some people would deem that disparity as a social good. Don't you?
and you are no different, so stop the attempt to be holier than thou because it is transparent. Now prove to me that your life, my life, ANYONES life has any more value than another puts upon it, and while you are at it prove to me that you value ALL human life equally. Do you actually know anything at all about contraception and abortion, because from the statement above it appears you don't. What is more important than human life .. oh come on, the ability to defend yourself against other people harming you is more important than human life, if it was not there would be no self-defence. The ability to kill those who would invade your country is more important than human life, if it was not there would be no wars. The execution of criminals for their crimes is more important than human life, if it was not there would be no executions .. All you do is place arbitrary justifications on those items in order to align them with your moralistic viewpoint, so your "Nothing should be" is pure hyperbole and disingenuous. Yes and you support it just as much as the next person. I suggest you read a bible then. Prove it, prove that more and more unborn were killed as we became less religious .. I know you cannot and as such this is nothing more than ill informed opinion. The greatest murderer of the unborn is God (if you believe that is) for he has the power to stop any and all miscarriages, add to that-that he killed almost every living human being on this planet including the unborn, and according to the bible will do so again. No, I am supporting the right of each individual person to decide how, when, and what uses their body .. exactly the same right that you have, if a woman cannot have that right why should you? You know nothing about drug laws, it is not illegal to use drugs in the USA .. not a single person has EVER been convicted for being a drug user .. at least make some attempt to research the things you spout off about.
Seen this ridiculous comment made made times before, it means nothing above the attempted emotional appeal it is designed to invoke, thankfully the majority of sensible people can spot the ploy miles away. Had my mother, or yours, or any other persons, decided to have an abortion it would not have meant a single thing to me. I would not be known in this world, neither would I have cared about that decision. I have NEVER decided who is born or who is aborted, unlike you I don't try to force my personal opinion onto other people as far as who has an abortion or not .. what is it that you pro-lifers don't understand about pro-choice being about the person deciding for themselves whether they abort or not, unlike pro-lifers who want to force another person to do their bidding based on their own personal perspective of what is 'moral'. I no more want to force a woman to abort than I do to remain pregnant .. pro-lifers, however cannot claim the same. The poster you so admire is nothing more than a hit and tun poster, rarely, if ever, does that poster remain in a debate especially when the arguments they used are torn to shreds.
Just as blacks are disproportionately less well off than whites, and yet you do not even consider that as a relevance to abortion. White Americans have 22 times more wealth than blacks The median household net worth for whites was $110,729 in 2010, versus $4,995 for blacks, according to recently released Census Bureau figures, and yet with that higher median wealth status whites STILL make up 34% of all abortions performed .. How hard is it to accept that people who are in poverty are less able to include another mouth to feed, and yet we find Republicans standing against the very things that could help change this .. to me that stinks of their bank balance being more important than saving the unborn. There are reams and reams of studies that show that when people are given the best contraceptives available the abortion rate dramatically drops, from over 50% in the old USSR countries to a 62-78% drop in a small study done in the St. Louis area in 2012 ( http://www.livescience.com/23726-birth-control-abortion-rate.html ) Extract - Between 2006 and 2008, 49 percent of all pregnancies in America were unplanned, according to the CDC's National Survey of Family Growth. About 43 percent of these unintended pregnancies ended in abortion. Meanwhile, a 2011 study in the journal Contraception estimated that unintended births cost U.S. taxpayers about $11 billion a year. Providing free, reliable birth control to women could prevent between 41 percent and 71 percent of abortions in the United States, new research finds. In a study published today (Oct. 4 2012) in the journal Obstetrics and Gynecology, researchers provided free methods of reversible, reliable contraception to more than 9,000 teens and women in the St. Louis area. They found that the program reduced the abortion rate among these women by 62 percent to 78 percent. "The impact of providing no-cost birth control was far greater than we expected in terms of unintended pregnancies," lead author Jeff Peipert, a professor of obstetrics and gynecology at the Washington University School of Medicine, said in a statement. "We think improving access to birth control, particularly IUDs [intrauterine devices] and [hormone] implants, coupled with education on the most effective methods, has the potential to significantly decrease the number of unintended pregnancies and abortions in this country." The findings have implications for public policy, especially given that President Obama's health-care plan requires employers to offer plans that include birth control coverage. This requirement has been a point of controversy in the lead-up to the 2012 election. Between 2006 and 2008, 49 percent of all pregnancies in America were unplanned, according to the CDC's National Survey of Family Growth. About 43 percent of these unintended pregnancies ended in abortion. Meanwhile, a 2011 study in the journal Contraception estimated that unintended births cost U.S. taxpayers about $11 billion a year. To see if access to free contraception could budge those numbers, Peipert and his colleagues recruited 9,256 women ages 14 to 45 living in the St. Louis area through flyers, doctors and word-of-mouth. They also recruited patients from the city's two abortion clinics. Participants were given the option of using any reversible birth control method, from the birth control pill to a hormonal birth control patch to a long-lasting IUD or hormonal implant. More than half of the women chose IUDs, 17 percent picked hormonal implants (tiny rods placed under the skin that release hormones), and the rest chose pills, patches and other hormonal methods. As a result, the researchers found, both teen births and overall abortion rates plummeted. Among women in the free contraceptive program, the teen birth rate was 6.3 per 1,000 women, a huge difference from the national teen birth rate of 34.3 per 1,000 women. Likewise, the abortion rate among women in the program was 4.4 to 7.5 per 1,000 between 2008 and 2010. Nationally, there are 19.6 abortions per every thousand women, a 62 percent to 78 percent difference. In the St. Louis area, the overall abortion rate in that time frame was between 13.4 and 17 abortions per 1,000 women. The fact is that by providing long term contraceptives actually works out cheaper than providing condoms over the lifetime of the long term contraceptives. The average cost of a condom is around $0.90. The average cost of an IUD is $800.00 Americans have sex on average 132 times a year, assuming a condom is used each time that equates to $118.80 per year, over 10 years (the lifetime of an IUD) that is $1188.00, so supplying free IUD's would save the state $388.00 over 10 years, and this does not include any extra costs to the state of children being placed into care homes, and the extra welfare for the extra child in a family. So I ask you, as a pro-lifer, why are you not supporting a program that would not only reduce abortions dramatically, but would cost you less (in tax terms) in the long term?
