How to deal with NK artillery?

Kittyhawk Incident.


On 11th November 2006, the Commander of the US Navy’s Pacific Fleet at the time, Gary Roughead, made a historic visit to China in a hope of improving the relations between the two countries. His visit was intended to organize a joint military exercise that emphasized the search and rescue role of the Navy and was to take place on 19th of November that year.

However, the visit was overshadowed by the incident that occurred during an American naval exercise near the island of Okinawa. On 26th of October, a Chinese Song-Class submarine surfaced within five miles of the USS Kitty Hawk airplane carrier in the Pacific Ocean. Several weeks before the US delegation met with their Chinese counterparts, ships from the Pacific fleet were stationed in international waters between Taiwan and South Japan.

The carrier was surrounded by a dozen of ships in a protective formation, but nevertheless, the Chinese sub managed to slip through unnoticed. It came as a surprise that the Americans were unable to detect the lone submarine earlier, for their extensive defense screen included a submarine and anti-submarine helicopters, all responsible for protecting the battle group from an underwater attack


https://www.warhistoryonline.com/hi...-in-the-middle-of-a-carrier-battle-group.html


And of course Russian subs got even closer.




Carrier vs Submarine is battle that Submarine is expected to win.

 

Now you tell us, after our gormless so-called 'government' has just paid countless squillions to have a couple of carriers built, for which we can't afford to add a complement of planes. God but it's depressing!

 

Gormless Gordon is not so dumb, those carriers were built in his own constituency.
Jobs for the boys.

Our government, however already knows this.
We were the first country to discover the relative weakness of carriers vs submarine when we attempted to use carriers as escorts for merchant shipping in the Battle of the Atlantic.
Within 7 days, we lost one carrier and had almost lost a second.

I think the American's sunk a Japanese carrier too with a sub in that war.
Agakagi? Can't remember.

That a carrier can be sunk, doesn't make a carrier useless.
If we think back over the last 70 years, carrier s have been used in battles extensively, but naval battles, ship on ship, have only once occurred.
Sub vs Belgrano and Argies sub (Sante Fe?)vs whatever it is we sunk it with. Frigate I suppose.

 

The basic tactics of the artillery are movement, and this is the reason why, even in the First World War, the location of firefighting enemy artillery can be quickly clarified, what was more and better the case in the Second World War and with the possibilities of today it is an easy task of minutes.
Today are several systems in use, which can detect enemy artillery shells and missiles in the air and thand to electronic issues, the area from where they are shot from, can easy be located.
So it is necessary for artillery to move out of coming Dodge City after they have fired their some few rounds and this is the reason why nearly all artillery is self propelled like MLRS or M-109 Paladin in the US. But contrary are also towed howitzers still in use too, for example at US Marines and that these guns are lesser mobile is obvious...

North Korea has a bunch of over 10,000 artillery pieces of different versions and types and so in number and fire power a very strong artillery. Much of it is towed too and so it is often told that they and NK artillery are an easy match for US artillery etc. But why?
Because the experiences of Iraq are taken as reason, where Iraq artillery was silenced very fast by US forces, but people make with this a basic error! NK is not Iraq and here we a have a battle field which is more like the US Appalachians in the East and for sure no open flat desert in majority where to hide something is nearly impossible. Also it should be taken into account that NK has now since 60 years prepared their artillery for their job at the borders to SK and they are no fools as many believe in their arrogance.

 

Technology has changed in the last 60 years. North Korea's artillery is useless without a leader to give commands or personnel to man the guns. Think there may be a desertion or two from No. Korean solders on the front line? Think "revolutionary guard".

 

Yeah Lil Kim wont be able to control his skies. Can't even really factor them in.


Modern Korean People's Army Air Force (North Korea) Aircraft (2017)

There are a total of 23 Modern Korean People's Army Air Force (North Korea) Aircraft (2017) in the Military Factory. Entries are listed below in alphanumeric order (1-to-Z). Flag images indicative of country of origin. Return to the Modern Aircraft Index.

Unlike its land forces, the North Korean air service is a rather modestly-sized branch made up of a collection of Cold War-era aircraft......snip~

https://www.militaryfactory.com/mod...korean-peoples-army-air-force-north-korea.asp

 

Yes, I wasn't very impressed with his air force.

But then again, I'm even less impressed with mine.
In this scenario, we can bring around 10 drones to the party.

His airframe look old, but they will have great weapon suites available to them.

If I was Mr Kim, I'd withdraw them to China if I was allowed. Move them even further back.

But I want to add Serbia as my caveat. If it turns out to be a SAMfest, your planes won't be much help to us.
So I don't suppose the Seb air-force was more impressive than the NK air-force, but it flew combat missions every day of the war and it might not have taken any losses either. So I'll be taking tanks. And if I want my air force, I'll need to capture a long runway intact.

 

NK's artillery can only reach the northern suburbs of Seoul and their artillery would have to be right at the border for that. We could see their firing from space and known within an inch where each it. Our artillery would not have to be at the border, only within range of their artillery that we know exactly where each is via satellites - and NK has no idea where our incoming fire is coming from. NK's artillery would be wiped out quickly by our artillery.

 

NKs submarines are very noisy. Any that put to sea would be eliminated quickly.

It is interesting the desperation of some to make Kim Jung Un and NK a military giant. NK has a 1950s military at best. The false assumptions are 1.) we have to invade NK, 2.) NK has a way to deliver nuclear bombs now successfully and 3.) the USA needs any other country's permission to defend ourselves. If SK does not want us to protect them then we wouldn't.

 

I have never heard of us losing a carrier on that front and I don't see it mentioned here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sunken_aircraft_carriers Have any info on it?

 

Since Israel is unable to defend itself against flimsy rockets from Hamas, obsolete Iranian crap from Hezbollah, nor 1980's non laser "guided" rockets from iraq... seems just totally obvious a country like China will do "a bit" better.

 

Almost all of those aircraft carriers fought in WWII because it's 1940's idea's to have them. We had over half a century to come up a solution to counter those ships. You think we had some technological improvements since them days?

 

That submarines against aircraft carriers can be very effective is known since the 2nd World War. The Royal Navy can sing a song about this ... and also the Shinano of Japan was sunk by an US sub!
It is also fact that the Brits did not lose their carrier HMS Invincible in the Falkland War only due to nervousness and mistakes of an Argentine sailor ... The sailor had forgotten to make the torpedo sharp or it had a technical error and so the torpedo ran harmlessly under the carrier and Argentianin Captain wouldn't risk a second torpedo because maybe detected! (**)

Also it should not be forgotten that there are a bunch of Anti-Ship missile system existing on this planet ... shot from planes, ships and also subs ... or even from land!

(**)
This issue had also a some sort of comedy note too, because after the Royal navy noted this and that the Sub was a state of the art German one used by German Navy too, they become outraged about ... "how can you sell such a dangerous submarine to Argentine" Maggy Thatcher accused Helmut Kohl"... his foreign minister Genscher answered "same way as the French sold the Exocet missiles to them and the USA the Skyhawk jets and other stuff"!

 

Bunker Buster Tactical Nukes should eliminate a lot of them in a hurry, if they attack first.

 

And you will catch them all in one night ... and no one of them can be fired off as NK answer?

Well this was told in 1991 and 2003 too and worked so well that how many ridiculous Scuds were shot from flat plain desert in Iraq towards Israel, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait undetected?
Note that Kim has multiple time more of these old missiles and bunch of much more and bigger dangerous missiles as Saddam ever had ... and NK is not a flat desert!

 

Here's an interesting analysis of the situation with N. Korea by Andrew Korybko in Sputnik. The people in S. Korea didn't want the Thads and wanted to better the situation with N. Korea, and that's why they voted for their president. In order to get the Thads into S. Korea and close to the Russian and Chinese borders, Trump began provoking Kim, and like an idiot he responded. This gave Washington the chance to claim that N. Korea was a threat to the south and that they needed to install the Thads.

This would account for why the US was not willing to accept the plan worked out by Russia, and agreed to by China for both the US and N. Korea to start their disarmament of the peninsula. Germany has now joined Russia and China and agrees it's the only way to achieve peace and get Kim to get rid of his nukes.

 

Don't be depressed, as long as the dollar is used universally, our war making money machines will keep working and filling the pockets of the Military Industrial complex and its advocates. The only hope the world had to stop the wars was Russia because of its courage and political astuteness. With congress' latest sanctions, Putin has accentuated his efforts to break the dollar monopoly. It's a gradual process so the world won't fall into a depression.

This reminds me of Nicola Tesla who wanted to stop all wars by giving the world free energy... that is until Morgan found out there would be no return for his investment... He then destroyed him by saying he was crazy and he ended up broke and alone until he died 2 decades later. Tesla is not mentioned in any of our text books, and yet everything we have today including remote control and radio was because of Tesla. When someone asked him how he felt about other inventors stealing his patents, he replied that he only felt bad that they didn't have any idea's of their own. As for money, he felt it was a necessary evil so he could continue his experiments, otherwise he could care less.

 

Yes we have, "The Orchestra of Cannon" WW1.

 

Sounds like the Russian sub showed their superiority over US carrier by letting it deliberately hit by the carrier to show the world they were undetected and able to sink that carrier if that was their mission.

 

I'm thinking the Captain got the sack for this and not a medal.

 

The IDF does quite well. What does this have to do with anti-ship missiles? I'll answer that for you. NOTHING.

 

The best way to deal with North Korea is the Cold War strategy called massive retaliation, also known as a massive response or massive deterrence. Comrade Kim backed away from attacking Guam after President Trump hinted at striking dozens of North Korean missile sites in retaliation in an event of an ICBM attack on Guam.

 

China said that if Kim hits any American territory, they will not support them... which probably means that N. Korea never planned on hitting Guam.. so don't believe too much of what Washington says. As an example, I always thought that Khruschev backed down in the Cuban missile crises, but recently I found out the truth. He was going to put missiles in Cuba unless we took ours out of Turkey. Kennedy took them out and the crises ended.

 

I fondly remember the days when the White House and the Pentagon had some of that, but they're long gone now though. And I simply can't believe that we were once a respected world power when we're now a joke in our lefty obsession to be the world's 'good guy'. Not to mention the insanity of building these 2 ships with no planes for them, and HS1/2 vanity adventures costing the requisite £zillions plus the associated disruption to the lives of those who are unfortunate enough to have their homes on the proposed route, just to save 10 effig minutes from London to the north ('the Northern Power-house' as these idiots are pleased to call it. ), and all this when when we have a national debt of whatever it is now - which, with interest payments, is even more than it was ten effing years ago. These cretins are so self-obsessed that it's made them go out of control, and because of that, big **** is just around the corner.

 

And that has what to do with my question?