Is it moral for God to punish us?

And how do you know they are the encapsulation of the One God?

They were written at a time when people didn't even know the earth revolved around the sun.

AboveAlpha

 

The problem of human limited awareness is absolutely relevant when it comes time to consider the entity and the nature of God. Humans wrote down all what God said about Himself [so we have to keep in mind that, even if inspired, those persons interpreted ...].

This said, there is a point which is usually not well underlined by Churches with a certain "mystery attitude" [mystery usually hides knowledge which is not mysterious, but knowledge is power, you know].

Think a moment:

God has created humans
God has inspired the Holy Texts

What does this mean?

That the "author" of the books is also the "author" of the readers. Shouldn't we expect that we should be able to understand the books inspired by God?

 

Which version of this God thingy are we discussing here...If it is the Christian one, it has no moral code that one can define through the continuous inconsistencies. If it is the Muslim version, morality does not even come into play. There are a few Gods in India with seemingly decent morals, but they look rather strange and like sex too much.

Maybe someone should make a new one that is a bit less psychotic.

 

Not sure what you mean. It depends on what you mean by justice, and in a way, what you mean by immoral judgement.

 

I often wonder why God has created us if there is one. And after creating us why he wants us to suffer.There is a paradox when God wants his children to suffer. If he is really powerful cannot he make everyone happy. This is really a matter of discussion and as such all I feel that there is no consistency of what is said or believed about God with what really happens

 

Um, so what if they didn't know the earth revolved around the sun? Since when was scientific knowledge a precursor for guidance?

Nevertheless, the Qur'an does say:

"And He it is Who has created the night and the day, and the sun, and the moon, each in an orbit floating."(*)

So how would have ancient desert peoples known this?

 

Is this a joke?

http://www.muslim.org/islam/int-is7.htm

 

Yes...it was. Attempting to discuss morality and the God hypothesis is very difficult to do with a straight face. Unfortunately the religious do not seem to have a sense of humor when discussing the God they have chosen from the dartboard of faith.

 

Believe that's covered in Romans...

... He has to or otherwise...

... He wouldn't be a just God.

 

Well, they could look up into the sky and observe it since they're both visible to the naked eye. Were they so backwards that they couldn't see those things floating in space and moving in an orbital pattern? I'm shocked they needed a book to teach such basics they could learn by bending the neck a bit with eyes open at various times of day.

 

Well, methinks this whole "which God" argument peddled by non-believers is really just another poor excuse for not wanting to believe in God.

No surprise that the disbelief among most atheist that I've encountered always seemed to stem from giving up on Him because things got too...hard.

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The point was that they knew that the earth did not revolve around the sun.

 

How does them being wrong make the book relevant? Or did you mis-type your response?

 

What you thinks is rather pointless...most already know what it is. As for the "Which God" argument, I am aware you have picked one (not entirely sure which one that is), the point was that there cannot be one God when reality shows us there are thousands out there and to pick One(1) automatically forces you to tell everyone that picked differently they are wrong. Some people go a bit further and decide to kill those that picked a different version.

 

God punishes nobody. Life is a forge, we are steel and God is a blacksmith. Does the blacksmith "punish " the iron he turns into horseshoes, or is he simply shaping it into what he wishes it to be? Is the blacksmith punishing the steel he rejects as not being good enough for a fine sword, or too brittle to make horseshoes?

 

One of the major things that always bothered me about many sects of Christianity was the emphasis on how disgusting and worthless humans are while at the same time constantly praising how perfect and flawless our creator was. It makes for a very strange and bewildering theology. Obviously, it has its roots in dualism, but the fact that Christianity explicitly rejects dualism makes it very confusing.

 

Mistype.

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Thousands out there? Name one.

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Does the blacksmith have the attribute of being most just? If so, wouldn't his attribute of most justness necessitate punishment and reward?

 

If by chance you are serious, and so incredibly uninformed as that entails...perhaps you couild begin your education here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_deities

The server space here might not be up to the task.

 

Oh, I see. So you were talking about gods, not God.

 

...uh....yeah, by the way, I am unsure if you follow the Christian or the Islamic one....can you let me know which it is?

 

Are you saying that the Abrahamic God and a polytheistic God are two completely different things? Why do we use the same word for them then?
It's not just English. Even the Hebrew word "Elohim" is pretty much based on the same word that levantine pagans used to describe their Gods. The Arabic word also comes from the same root.

 

Both the Islamic and Christian God are the same. Just because different religions have different conceptions of the One supreme being (God) does not mean that He is the same God.

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The point is that there is no god but God. And God is the perfect entity which is unlike any other god created by man.

 

So Muslims believe in the father, son and holy spirit?

Very far from any Christian belief: Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

And last, but certainly not least..

Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

I can't buy that the God of Christianity and the God of Islam are the same. Muslims are guided to kill non believers and they do it to Christians as well. If they believed in the same God, there would be no misunderstanding. Man has made up the "all the same God" to try to cover for the obvious discrepancies that divide the different religions. It's a copout and it's BS.

 

Like I said, just because people have different conceptions of God, does not mean that He is one and the same.

Similarly, just because there are different shades of red, it doesn't mean that Red is not one and the same.

And I'm not even going to bother with your claim that Muslims are supposed to kill non-Muslims.

 

There's probably no point trying to deflect from the killing of non-Muslims. Most people know what is written. You can't make it go away with words when the answers are in black and white.

Why not just admit you recognize a different God than Christianity and Judaism? It's ok, really. You can't possibly believe in the same one with a text so deliberately written in direct conflict with the beliefs of Jews and Christians.

Quran (47:3-4) - "Those who disbelieve follow falsehood, while those who believe follow the truth from their Lord... So, when you meet those who disbelieve smite at their necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly ... If it had been Allah's Will, He Himself could certainly have punished them. But, in order to test you, some with others. But those who are killed in the Way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost."

 

I'm pretty sure you just stated something and then said it was wrong....care to rephrase in a way that does not defeat your own argument?

Also, by avoiding an answer to my question you basically show you have o faith in anything Godlike...kinda wimpy if you ask me.