Putin: The U.S. World Order has Failed

Don't look here, look over there. LOL nice try trout, no cigar, your deflections, obfuscations and whitewashing of Putin's actions are not fooling anyone, he is a threat to global security according to your own standards. LOL

 

Putin isn't a threat to global security. That's complete nonsense. The historical record is clear as pointed out by William Blum and others. It's the record of American imperialism in creating global instability and chaos that's the real threat to global security. The record speaks for itself and puts Putin in the shade..

 

OK, so countries invading neighbors (twice in 5 years) and annexing their lands are not threats to global security in your views...I get it. LOL

 

If Putin extends his reach into Poland, the Baltic States and beyond, you'll have a point.

 

I already have a point, if Ukraine did not show restraint and retaliated we would already be in the middle of a major war, perhaps WWIII. That Ukraine chose not to mess with their insane barbarian neighborhood bully does not make that insane bully less of a global threat.

If Putin extends his reach into the regions you specify he is not going to be a global threat, he is going to be the destroyer of the world. As of now he is "just" a threat.

 

No, you don't have a point. The idea that Putin is a global threat to the world is laughable. The Empire of Chaos is the real threat, and Putin actions are essentially rear-guard actions. You may not be aware of the fact that UK and US troops are scheduled to participate in joint military exercises in Ukraine in July as part of NATO’s Rapid Trident manoeuvres. Ukraine is not a member of NATO. Its participation in military exercises by a nuclear-armed alliance with a first-strike policy can only further destabilise the country. Moscow has responded by making a major pivot East to enhance its informal alliance with China and thus strengthen the economic and strategic positions of both countries as a counterweight to Washington and Brussels.

 

We are not debating whether the US or other countries are global security threats, there are lots of threads dedicated to them.
Putin broke international law, invaded and annexed parts of a neighboring country, UN member in good standing. Don't you agree that his actions are absolutely illegal? And if Russia is willing to resort to invasions and annexations of territories that are not theirs and break international laws and treaties it signed and promised to uphold, how is it not a global security threat?

 

Your whole premise is based on completely ignoring how it was that Ukraine became the (*)(*)(*)(*)hole it is today and the US's complicity in making it so. The US meddling in Ukraine is taken from the same template as that used in destabilizing Syria.

Other than that one small detail, great job in dancing on a pinhead of logic.

 

That was not the topic of the discussion, regardless of whether you are right or wrong, if you believe in international law you should admit that Putin's invasion and annexation of parts of Ukraine is illegal, criminal and unacceptable.

And I suppose the entire Arab revolution is the US fault as well....Is there anything going on in the world that in your view is not the fault of the US? Just curious

 

Now that you mention it, you could add Libya to the list, too.

The US has used its TechCamps to, among other things, organize opposition to governments it wishes to destabilize. Once the opposition (which may have an organic component to it) congeals and demonstrations begin, the US uses that as a gateway to bring about regime change. It's a new twist on an old device; that of using proxies to fight wars. Now that we have a fully compliant media, shaping the news to justify further overt action is easy.

 

why is it so difficult for you to even imagine that revolts and revolutions and riots might (just might) happen without a direct US involvement. Why can't you possibly believe that the Ukrainian people could want all by themselves without any CIA's involvement to be a part of the West, not part of Russia's totalitarian barbaric rule?



Why can't you imagine that the Lybian people could at some point of time get fed up with their "Big Brother" Qaddaffi and rised up against him? Even if they did not do it out of liberal democratic motives, they could have just as easily done that out of sectarian hatred and distrust...

That being said the Lybian thing is quite a recent history, the uprisal started there by itself, Gaddafi was suppressing it brutally, it was the UK and France that spearheaded the western involvement, Obama was not leading the effort and was in fact a very relunctant participant.

 

I'm liberal on certain things, but I'm not a Democrat.

And no, I didn't support the war with Syria or with Libya for that matter. I'm not even a fan of Obama in general. I just don't get why you admire someone even worse like Putin.

 

Borat, note that I did say that oppositions may have an organic component to it. It is that organic component that is organized and cultivated to allow a way to insert people to achieve the desired result (regime change).

Of course, there is opposition in most every country so the possibilities are many.

This is all part of the State Department's Civil Society 2.0 initiative, begun by Hillary Clinton. The TechCamps are part of that program. On its face, one could say it's a benign program, but it's also easy to see that it's a double-edged sword that could easily be used for more sinister purposes. The facts on the ground show to what end this program is often used.

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From the State Department web site:

Civil Society 2.0 is an initiative to assist non-governmental (NGOs) and civil society organizations (CSOs) in using new digital tools and technologies to increase the reach and impact of their work.

The State Department convened technologists, CSOs, and those who understand the interface of the two groups. Through specific regional events, we gather an understanding of the challenges CSOs face and engage the technology community to help solve them appropriately. In November 2010, a Tech@State: Civil Society event introduced this idea, and its first application, TechCamp, took place in Santiago, Chile.

For TechCamp Santiago, the Department of State and its partner, Personal Democracy Forum (PdF), convened technologists and civil society leaders from around the Americas to identify and implement improvements. Goals of the program include increasing regional civil society organizations' digital literacy, sharing information, building networks and matchmaking like-minded individuals to organizations. By expanding capacity overall through the digital sphere, organizations will be able to work more efficiently toward their goals.

Global and regional technology and social media experts worked together with regional civil society representatives to determine specific need and build practical applications on the following themes:

promoting social and economic opportunity; ensuring the safety of our citizens; strengthening effective institutions of democratic governance; and addressing the challenges of energy security and climate change.

The issues identified during TechCamp Chile fed into the global Random Hacks of Kindness event in December 2010. The combination of TechCamp training and Random Hacks programming allowed technology volunteers from around the world to assist in developing solutions for the civil society organizations in attendance in Santiago.

TechCamp, a key program of Civil Society 2.0, is a two day training event through which the Department of State pairs leaders in the technology community with civil society organizations to provide training, resources, and assistance that enable civil society organizations to harness the latest connection technologies to build their capacity and advance their missions.

▴

 

Russia's' latest objective in Crimea, was to establish control over a territory of strategic naval significance to it.

Obama's foreign policy initiative with Putin in regards to Syria and Iran muted his ability to respond and muted was that response as muted as Obama has been over the connection between Muslim terrorists and their Turkish host and his alleged good friend Erdogan of Turkey.

Obama's foreign policy of getting into bed with Morsi, Erdogan and Putin backfired on him and the Russians sensing his weakness seized on an opportunity to exploit it after rendering him a fool in Syria.

As for the EU they fool no one. They are so eeavily dependent on Russian natural gas, particularly Germany that the EU can't afford to really do anything at this point until they find alternative sources to energy other than Russian ones.

The illegal annexation of Crimea supported by the same forum supporters who scream that Israel has illegally annexed the West Bank and see no contradiction in that is not the first such exercise by Putin. Putin is doing nothing more than the Soviet Union did before him. He has revised their Russian imperialist doctrine which really was just a continuation of earlier Russian imperialism in the Czarist days by deliberately inciting ethnic divisions in nations with Russian ethnics.

That m.o. which is fundamentalist Stalinist doctrine and was used by Hitler to expand Germany and justify Nazi German occupations of neighbouring countries is being used Transnistria, Moldova, Georgia; and in Azerbaijan to name but some nations with large Russian ethnic populations and given that repeated exercise in such nations, there is no reason to think it will not be used in the future in Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania and other former Soviet Socialist Republics.

In the short term it is the m.o. Putin is trying to use to rebuild his former Soviet Empire in what he sees as a justified response to NATO expansionism.

However I would argue as do others because my ideas are far from original, that this strategy of trying to restore the Soviet Empire may work short term but not over a lengthy period of time for several reasons, the first being Russia is bankrupting itself over its movements and withdrawals of Russian troops and special service forces. Military expenses are not cheap. They already bankrupt the Soviet Union and now they threaten to do the same with Russia's economy which is solely dependent on the export of gas and oil

That gas and oil has been the weapon Russia exploits to avoid retaliation. Its used its energy exports for leverage over states to coerce them into compliance when necessary. It tried it on the Ukraine. It poisoned their leader and threatened their country with turning off the energy if they got closer to NATO. When that didn't work he put in a stooge puppet. When that didn't work well in come the troops to Crimea, the display on the boarder then the big show withdrawal of conventional forces as a cover while sending in special service forces into the Eastern Ukraine to incite civil war and violence.

Putin is nothing more than a KGB retread operating under the auspices of old time communists who now keep their political ideology under wraps and avoid the name socialist and a coalition with his organized crime syndicates.

Putin has been using energy as a weapon to not just dominate western energy markets but undermine and destroy the US economy and in particular US reserves. Russia was the primary player with China in getting Iran to change the world trade currency of gas and oil to Euros from US dollars.

There's a problem though and its Putin's achilles tendon I would suggest.. An analysis of Russian oil and gas fields in western Russia shows they are maturing and therefore will continue to diminish in production levels. He's also just promised major part of them to be sent to China at locked in below market prices.

If Putin intends to keep using his oil as a weapon he will need to develop his oil fields in the East and that is why he has locked himself into trade with China not Europe.

The EU and the US already predicted Russia would be turning East in about 2009 and started making contingency plans.

That is precisely why for example Russia started offering bilateral energy deals to individual countries in the West. It wanted to drive a wedge between Germany and other NATO or EU members.

The problem now is John McCain and the Republican Americans who warned not to trust Russia were ignored and Obama laughed off Romney's comments on Russia in last round of debates for Presidency and the Republican warnings have come true which mean many Americans will be reminded of this next election and won't be in the mood for Hilary Clinton but someone more tough on Russia and China.

As for the EU-NATO they have no choice now but to unite in their search to find alternative energy sources, one being a huge deposit half way between Cyprus and Israel which is why Turkey a Russian ally and Russia both have strategic interests in placing their navies of the coast of Syria. Turkey is being shunned by the EU, Russia suddenly sees a competitive source of energy for Europe and its worried so it must keep its navy in Syria and maintain a Syrian puppet government for both it and Turkey. Meanwhile that alienated Greece another NATO member who entered into a joint naval agreement with Israel and is sufficient enough to cause a problem if Greece, Israel and Turkey all get into naval war. Erdogan has tried to provokeIsrael numerous times using the attempt to break the blockade once but Israel had the support of NATO who as we speak continue to board ships they suspect of being involved in terrorist operations.

Here though is Putin's real problem Shale gas is rising to prominence in global markets and that kind of gas directly undermines Russia as a source of , l gas and put downward pressure on global energy prices which in turn will dramatically hurt Russian export prices they have already assumed they will earn and in essence have spent on their military.

Russia does have shale reserves but does not have the technology to refine it and the two leading nations in shale gas extraction are the US and Canada. Canada's current foreign policy is the closest it has been to American US foreign policy ever. That will not change because of free trade between the nations and Canada has a free trade agreement with the EU now, so either way Canada and the US are not about to help Russia when they both stand to benefit from shale gas extraction replacing Russian gas on world markets.

Putin as if the case with all Stalinist KGB stooges is not strong on understanding the economy. Its why the only economy in his country is either run by criminal syndicates or government oil monopolies. He has no clue how to sustain a vibrant, flexible, ever changing market place that brings in new ideas.

Putin is a one trick pony and his complete dependence on oil and gas as his source of income means Russia within 10 years will implode as the global markets decrease the price of gas he has already anticipated and spent.

That over dependence on gas and oil exports which implodes eventually will necessarily mean the Russian economy will not be strong enough to provide basic commodities including food to its own citizens let alone the satellite puppets it wants to take back.

There is already serious issues with the availability and distribution of basic food items in Russia and interestingly just before the invasion of Crimea their were food riots in Russia.

Yep, the Russians on this forum extolling the virtues of Putin can line up once again for their rancid meat and stale loaves of bread. That's coming soon.

Blaming the US for that is b.s. Putin had the option to bring in technological assistance from the West Instead his ego and inability to ask for such help
has done nothing but re-establish the large Soviet Bear paralyzed by vodka, corruption and short sighted economic planning.

 

From last November:

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Link: http://www.ukrinform.ua/eng/news/ts...ions_for_inciting_civil_war_in_ukraine_313204

November 20 /Ukrinform/. A member of the Party of Regions faction in parliament, Oleh Tsariov, has sent a deputy's request to the Ukrainian authorities to take measures to stop and prevent representatives of foreign countries from interfering in the internal affairs of Ukraine. He said that the U.S. Embassy in Kyiv is promoting preparations for inciting a civil war in Ukraine.

He said this from the parliament's rostrum on Wednesday, the press service of the Party of Regions reported.

"Activists of the Volia public organization addressed me as a people's deputy of Ukraine and provided strong evidence that the TechCamp project is being implemented in our state with the support and direct participation of the U.S. Embassy, as part of which preparations for inciting a civil war in Ukraine are underway. The TechCamp project is aimed at training information war experts and potential revolutionaries to organize protests and overthrow the regime. The project is being implemented under the patronage of U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt," the politician said.

Tsariov said that under the guise of teaching the peculiarities of the use of modern media, U.S. instructors are talking about the use of social networking and Internet technologies for purposeful influence on public opinion and the intensification of the protest potential n order to organize protests and radicalize the struggle for power. "As examples American instructors provided the use of social networks for the organization and management of street riots in Egypt, Tunisia and Libya," he said.

He said that TechCamp graduates are conducting subversive activities in Ukraine, openly recruiting like-minded people on the Internet for organizing riots, protests and provocations, while citing the support of the U.S. Embassy in Ukraine.

Tsariov demanded that law enforcement agencies find out whether representatives of the U.S. Embassy in Kyiv violate the United Nations Declaration on the Inadmissibility of Intervention and Interference in the Internal Affairs of States.

 

I did not admire Putin. Russia had a lot more attractive leaders, but Russians did not ask us and elected Putin. However, when that mess in Ukraine was started, many were forced to change their mind. He is a very successful politician and a leader of Russia. Forbes magazine made a point.

 

He definitely knows how to play the game, but so did Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, and Mao.

Being good at political maneuvering has little to do with ethics.

I've never suggested that Putin was incompetent. I am suggesting he's quite dangerous though.

 

Yes he is successful and the Russian people like and admire him.. He also loves his country 100%. That has a lot to do with it.

 

Good article Woogs. That's exactly how CNN say the Egyptians (muslim brotherhood) organized their riots in Egypt, via facebook. Of course now Egypt is the black sheep since they didn't follow through on keeping the west's agenda of having the muslim brotherhood in charge of Egypt. Ain't it sweet?

 

Cat, you may be interested in reading the linked article. It gives a great timeline for the Arab Spring and how the US injected itself. It doesn't mention the central bankers angle, which was a big part of the overthrow of Gadaffi, and it's not a new article so the latest developments aren't there. Still, a very good primer on the issue.

What blew me away is that this was written by a 19 year old kid. He did a great job tackling it.
.... http://www.globalresearch.ca/arab-spring-revolutions-lies-and-intervention/26302

 

There are a lot of people posting here with huge unjust hatred that unjustly accuse Russia.
All you Russia haters should be happy, because over the last 2 months, Russia literally gave Ukraine to your terrorist hijacker regime.
Not only that, you should be happy to slaughter the people of East Ukraine as you were happy about slaughtering the West Ukraine soldiers that refused to attack their Easter brothers.
Once you finnish your slaughter and rape of most of Ukraine, Crimea will be cut off from Russia and you will be able to take that too.
At the same time, you can bring in millions of Allah wa Akhar crazies to kill and rape their way through Russia till they come to you on their knees begging to surrender.
New Eport products from Ukraine to Israelis and Saudis.

 

Unlike Hitler and others you like to use for comparison, Putin did not start any wars. Today, NATO plays Hitler, but much less successfully from the start. NATO cannot win in time of peace, but cannot start WWIII, yet.

 

I'm not saying Putin is equivalent to Hitler. NATO didn't mobilize a bunch of soldiers into Crimea though, so Putin looks a lot more suspicious.

 

Great article Woogs, the 19 year old is smarter than all the old blowhards in Congress.

 

Well the money is in oil and gas you know? Besides they earned it, after all it's not easy to get superpowers to support a bunch of thieves, now is it?